Red Birds at Reds 9/4/2013

[TSJ55]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/mlb/g...recap&c_id=cin

"You're not going to lay a squeeze down with two outs," Baker said. "Heisey, he thought the third baseman was back. He was bunting for a hit, and Choo was trying to score. It looked like he didn't see the ball go past him, and by then you're in no-man's land because he was trying to score."

[Red Raindog]

It wasn't a suicide squeeze. Next question.

Well Choo turned it into suicide --- but you are correct -

[TSJ55]

Execution.

If Heisey gets the bunt down and beats it out he's a hero for seeing the 3B playing back.

I'm a sucker for aggressive play and I like this play...in theory. The Reds were having a hard time getting runs in from 3rd swinging away so what's to lose? Choo screwed the pooch letting himself go haywire on the bases again.

[Red Raindog]

I'm a sucker for aggressive play and I like this play...in theory. The Reds were having a hard time getting runs in from 3rd swinging away so what's to lose? Choo screwed the pooch letting himself go haywire on the bases again.

Yup - Choo was not showing much baseball IQ in this game.

Of course if Choo makes the proper throw earlier -- there is no runner on 2nd to score on Votto's latest brain cramp.

[klw]

David Schoenfield of ESPN weighs in.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...ro-in-st-louis

In the 15th, Shin-Soo Choo led off with a base hit and Dusty Baker had 100-RBI man Brandon Phillips sacrifice. The stats guys on Twitter went crazy (Dusty never gets much love on Twitter), but Phillips does ground into a lot of double plays (16 on the season), and Joey Votto and Jay Bruce were on deck against right-handed Carlos Martinez. I'm in the "no bunting" club for the most part, and it's not often 100-RBI guys -- even overrated 100-RBI guys -- are asked to bunt. But, hey, National League baseball, or something like that. Maybe Dusty got caught up in Billy Hamilton and thought we were back in the 1980s. Anyway, Votto grounded out to move Choo to third, Bruce was intentionally walked and Chris Heisey then attempted to bunt (remember, two outs), missed the pitch, and Choo got caught in a rundown -- a play that has to go down as the worst of the season, or at least the worst in a crucial game in September that you can't afford to lose.

Cardinals fans will remember this one for Matt Adams. I have a feeling Reds fans will remember this one for the bunts.

[reds44]

Why do you call some fans idiots?
You don't even know a simple fact that superior opposite field hitters have high BABIP rates naturally.

This isn't true either, but hey whatever floats your boat! Just because I was surprised Choo had a .351 career BABIP doesn't mean I didn't expect it to be higher. Just didn't expect it to be that much higher.

I still can't believe people thought that Dusty called for the bunt last night.

And for the record, it was like 98% on Choo and 2% on Heisey. If Heisey gets the bunt down, the Reds probably win. Choo has to stay put at 3rd until the bunt gets down.

[Sea Ray]

And, God knows we couldn't blame Heisey. You know, the .233 hitting, .700 OPS "slugger" who was 0-6 tonight who decided to bunt with two out in a game that lasted forever. The love for Heisey around here borders on sickening.

Heisey deserves some of the blame but in the end, his boo boo cost us a strike. Choo's cost us an out. Which do you consider more valuable?

[Sea Ray]

Think you mean "runner" where you wrote "hitter" the 2nd time? Heisey has to be able to lay down a bunt and, in that situation, shouldn't have been bunting anyway. Choo saw Heisey square and bet (wrongly) he'd put the ball in the play. Not a terrible bet but, in hindsight, obviously not the right one. MLB.com has the play as Choo caught stealing home. That's funny stuff if you watch the replay.

Tomorrow is, in fact, another day. We are still in very good shape. But we really need to take care of business and this series with a win tomorrow behind Tony.

You're right. Too many "hitters" in that sentence. It was getting late. No question Heisey should not have been bunting and if he was doing it on his own, there's no way he should have been bunting that pitch. He should have not offered at it after squaring. Those are all on Heisey

[Sea Ray]

Right. The bunt idea wasn't crazy. Heisey is fast. Element of surprise. Chris isn't a high average hitter, chances of a base hit weren't great.

But the execution was just not good. Heisey doesn't make contact and Choo is caught off base. How could it go worse?

I'm not aware that Heisey has any bunting skills. Has he ever bunted for a base hit? If not then it was crazy to think you can do something that you don't have a skill set for

[Sea Ray]

You are simply wrong.
The point here is that Heisey not only made an attempt to bunt the pitch with 2 outs but also swung at it in a bunt attempt.
100% on Heisey.

How did Heisey swinging and missing on a pitch cause Choo to try to steal home?

[TSJ55]

I don't think that it was an aggressive play. It was just a stupid play.
Of course, the batting lineup that included Heisey as 5th hitter itself was more stupid.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to my opinion that without the benefit of hindsight, you would be singing a different tune today.

[Rantly]

Can anyone explain to me the suicide squeeze? I understand this team's futility offensively and how they ought to try anything but in what world does it make sense to SUICIDE squeeze with two out? The only way such a play works is if the bunt is good for a base hit. And if it's a good enough bunt for a base hit then it's extremely likely that the runner on third can score without leaving the base early. That makes no sense whatsoever to me and I hope they ask Dusty some pointed questions about this

That is why Choo is the most at fault in this case.
Heisey trying to bunt for a base hit and Choo lost track of situation and thought it was a squeeze. Choo ie not a good base runner

[Rantly]

OK, then why was he caught off 3rd? If you are correct then Choo is the idiot here.

BINGO

[reds44]

Choo WAS the idiot. Have people never seen what an actual suicide squeeze looks like? On a suicide squeeze the runner takes off from third as soon as the pitcher starts towards the plate. That was not what happened last night. Choo didn't take off until Heisey tried to bunt and missed. It was a really dumb baserunning play by Choo. Believe it or not, it's not always Dusty's fault.

[Rantly]

You are simply wrong.
The point here is that Heisey not only made an attempt to bunt the pitch with 2 outs but also swung at it in a bunt attempt.
100% on Heisey.

No, he is correct.
Choo 90% at fault, he cannot get caught off the base until he sees the bunt down period