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Thread: Joey Votto needs to sit.

  1. #61
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    If we can move past the chest pounding for a moment, can anyone give a reasonable analysis of WHY Votto is struggling? I am sure he is somewhat tired, but is there something in his swing that isn't right? Have pitchers found something to exploit with him?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  3. #62
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Joey himself often talks about his approach to hitting as a "process swing." He is the opposite of bad ball hitters like Frazier and guess hitters like Stubbs. That is usually to his credit, but it also makes him less likely to suddenly burst out with multiple homer games like Bruce. It is an ebb and flow with Votto, a series of steps in a disciplined way. That's what makes him great, but it is also what makes his down periods a slowish burn. It's like every time he comes to the plate, it is part of a larger self-tutorial based on a scheme.

    Just a thought.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  5. #63
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    If we can move past the chest pounding for a moment, can anyone give a reasonable analysis of WHY Votto is struggling? I am sure he is somewhat tired, but is there something in his swing that isn't right? Have pitchers found something to exploit with him?
    He doesn't seem loose at all, just seems to be pressing. I don't have any analysis beyond that, maybe Welsh can expand upon it.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  6. #64
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    If we can move past the chest pounding for a moment, can anyone give a reasonable analysis of WHY Votto is struggling? I am sure he is somewhat tired, but is there something in his swing that isn't right? Have pitchers found something to exploit with him?
    His swing looked a bit longer to me with a very high one handed follow through. He's usually much more compact and to the ball with his hands and wrists a s follows through lower. I actually saw heisey kind of doing the same thing.

  7. #65
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    If we can move past the chest pounding for a moment, can anyone give a reasonable analysis of WHY Votto is struggling? I am sure he is somewhat tired, but is there something in his swing that isn't right? Have pitchers found something to exploit with him?
    Not sure about the chest pounding but my belief is he's simply over thinking up there. He takes a swing and then steps WAY out of the box and walks around mumbling with that weird body language.

    It doesn't look mechanical to me because I don't notice a lot of rehearsed swings between pitches. Just a lot of head turning and looking toward the sky while talking to himself.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  9. #66
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    His swing looked a bit longer to me with a very high one handed follow through. He's usually much more compact and to the ball with his hands and wrists a s follows through lower. I actually saw heisey kind of doing the same thing.
    Heisey does look different to me too, but more in his stance. He looks more off-balance now or something.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #67
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    He'll get going again without a game off....but I believe he would be better off having 2 games off a month from June-Sept

    Last night could've been his worst game of baseball ever.

  11. #68
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Heisey does look different to me too, but more in his stance. He looks more off-balance now or something.
    He's opened the stance and it looks like its made his swing longer with less outside plate coverage.

    As far as votto. He also looks like he's over thinking. I know he's a thinking hitter and very cerebral but sometimes it's good to clear your head and just rely on instinct and see the ball and hit it.

  12. #69
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Posted this earlier but this is what I see. I have noticed is that he seems to be taking more "funky" looking swings this season, almost like he is fighting pitches off all the time. Kind of "twitchy, or "jerky" looking. I'm not seeing that smooth hard Votto swing as much, and I watch almost every game. Doesn't look as comfortable in the box as he used to look. Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so. My son brought the same thing up last week and we hadn't talked about it at all. He looks very uncomfortable in the box right now. Very antsy. Looks like he is trying more to spoil and fight off pitches than trying to drive the ball. His swing just doesn't look right and hasn't for some time. He is in a mental funk up there and it really has affected the physical part of his swing.
    Last edited by RANDY IN INDY; 09-05-2013 at 12:23 PM.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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  14. #70
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    I think sometimes it just "clears the mind" (stop trying so hard and over-thinking) to sit a game. Baseball is very much a mental game. Dusty/Votto are the not the first to come up with a one-game-off concept for a star player.

    Let's not pretend one game w/out Votto will ruin the season. IIRC this team once survived w/out him for months and still won the division. One game folks. 0-for-4 or 0-for-7 is the same whether it is a guy named Votto or a guy named Hanahan. Right now, for whatever reason, the best hitter on this team is not getting it done. I am willing to give him one game off as an attempt to cure this thing (like done by many other managers/players in the history of this game). Unless you have a proven voodoo method or soemthing else... let him rest a game!
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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  16. #71
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Posted this earlier but this is what I see. I have noticed is that he seems to be taking more "funky" looking swings this season, almost like he is fighting pitches off all the time. Kind of "twitchy, or "jerky" looking. I'm not seeing that smooth hard Votto swing as much, and I watch almost every game. Doesn't look as comfortable in the box as he used to look. Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so. My son brought the same thing up last week and we hadn't talked about it at all. He looks very uncomfortable in the box right now. Looks like he is trying more to spoil and fight off pitches than trying to drive the ball. His swing just doesn't look right and hasn't for some time. He is in a mental funk up there and it really has affected the physical part of his swing.
    I agree, and he pulled a ball foul last night, which is extremely rare for him. Some of the other just misses last night seemed like a timing issue. He wasn't squaring anything up quite right. Pitchers are coming in on him quite a bit, and he hasn't figured out how to hit those pitches. They go in, then out, in, then out. Normally, he takes those outside pitches the other way. He seems to be looking in when they throw away, and vice versa right now.

  17. #72
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    I think sometimes it just "clears the mind" (stop trying so hard and over-thinking) to sit a game. Baseball is very much a mental game. Dusty/Votto are the not the first to come up with a one-game-off concept for a star player.

    Let's not pretend one game w/out Votto will ruin the season. IIRC this team once survived w/out him for months and still won the division. One game folks. 0-for-4 or 0-for-7 is the same whether it is a guy named Votto or a guy named Hanahan. Right now, for whatever reason, the best hitter on this team is not getting it done. I am willing to give him one game off as an attempt to cure this thing (like done by many other managers/players in the history of this game). Unless you have a proven voodoo method or soemthing else... let him rest a game!
    Pedro Cerrano: Bats, they are sick. I cannot hit curveball. Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats. I offer him cigar, rum. He will come.
    Eddie Harris: You know you might think about taking Jesus Christ as your savior instead of fooling around with all this stuff.
    Roger Dorn: ****, Harris.
    Pedro Cerrano: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
    Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

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  19. #73
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Am I the only one frightened of the aspect the Reds may have to bench the best player on the team during the most important stretch of the season because he appears completely lost at the plate?
    You act as if they would "bench" him for multiple games. You don't actually think that do you?

  20. #74
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Heisey does look different to me too, but more in his stance. He looks more off-balance now or something.
    I was going to say last night, he looked like his stance was way more open than I've ever noticed before.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  21. #75
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto needs to sit.

    I really really really really don't want the boo birds to come out for Votto. There were a couple times last night where I was cringing and expecting it.

    Put me in the "he looks completely out of whack" camp. But in the past, that's when he gets back into whack.

    Rest him against LA, not the Cards.

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