The Fog From Game Five Last Year

[westofyou]

You said narrative as it it were some sort of made up hogwash. You sarcastically compared the cardinals and reds, therefore opening the door for a head to head comparison and evaluation of overall playoff performance, when recent evidence shows that head to head and in playoff series the cardinals are more victorious. It's pretty clear this reds team needs to learn to get over the hump and learn to "win the big one" or they'll prove to be nothing more than a team that you say hey they made the playoffs whereas you can say the cardinals won series and in 2011 the World Series. No narrative needed. No sarcasm needed. Just fact.

In reference to the Giants comeback was my statement, in response to FCB wrapped around (not your POV) but his view on the Cards fail vs the Giants.

And yes it was sarcastic... good pickup

[westofyou]

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here. In the 1970s the big red machine was known as the best team to not win it until 75. I think earlier in the sundeck I compared the reds v th cardinals right now to the bulls v pistons in the NBA in the late 80s. The bulls had to learn how to be tough and win and get over the hump to beat the pistons to become champions. Westofyou I'm sorry if I took you the wrong way but it really seemed as if you were classifying the cardinals success as compared to the reds as some sort of made up narrative when in reality it has merit. The reds need to learn to get over the top and take that next step. The cardinals in recent years have proven that they can do that.

Agreed that the Reds were a "disappointment" in the 70's till they won, and yes they do need to get tough. But I don't think game five demoralized them last year anymore than the Cardinals were demoralized

[Old school 1983]

In reference to the Giants comeback was my statement, in response to FCB wrapped around (not your POV) but his view on the Cards fail vs the Giants.

And yes it was sarcastic... good pickup

Oh I'm a very sarcastic person. I wonder if you're using more.....nah!

But the giants played great ball in the clutch last year. They kind of out cardinaled the cardinals.

[Old school 1983]

Agreed that the Reds were a "disappointment" in the 70's till they won, and yes they do need to get tough. But I don't think game five demoralized them last year anymore than the Cardinals were demoralized

I definitely agree with that. I think I just misunderstood what you were saying about the narrative. My bad if I took you the wrong way.

[Edskin]

If you win two WS in a six year span and capture one of them with some of the most improbable dramatics in the history of the game, you are going to get a mulligan on one big choke.

Yes, I think the Cards choke was "worse" given the circumstances. But I doubt it affected them as much considering the cache they have built up prior to that.

If team A hasn't been to the playoffs in forever and then blows a series lead and team B does the same thing, but they have titles and rings and big wins recently-- I definitely think it would be easier for team B to get past it.

[Falls City Beer]

3 of 4 from the Cards team that made the Reds look like road kill the last two series? I'll take it.

[Old school 1983]

3 of 4 from the Cards team that made the Reds look like road kill the last two series? I'll take it.

Maybe wishful thinking, but perhaps this is the start of new trend and an end if cardinal superiority.

[Ghosts of 1990]

I feel much like you Edskin. I'm not buying in until they give me a reason to. We're a good team, and a class organization. Still don't think they'll win a playoff series this year and I think last year was the best chance we're going to ever have to win it all or get to a World Series with this window or this current group.

They might not be in a fog, but I think a lot of my friends who are Reds fans like me feel the pain still from that series and all along, I knew we were going to lose games four and five and lose the series. For those who say players don't get wrapped up in all that, I disagree. I think they all felt the squeeze last year as well and they all knew they were going to not get it done in those last few games against the Giants.

I hope they prove me wrong, and I'm glad that it's been another winning season; but I still think we left the golden opportunity on the table last year and I dont think we'll get it back.

[Edskin]

I feel much like you Edskin. I'm not buying in until they give me a reason to. We're a good team, and a class organization. Still don't think they'll win a playoff series this year and I think last year was the best chance we're going to ever have to win it all or get to a World Series with this window or this current group.

They might not be in a fog, but I think a lot of my friends who are Reds fans like me feel the pain still from that series and all along, I knew we were going to lose games four and five and lose the series. For those who say players don't get wrapped up in all that, I disagree. I think they all felt the squeeze last year as well and they all knew they were going to not get it done in those last few games against the Giants.

I hope they prove me wrong, and I'm glad that it's been another winning season; but I still think we left the golden opportunity on the table last year and I dont think we'll get it back.

I'm a little more optimistic than that, but I totally agree with the general premise.

[gilpdawg]

Totally agree with this. You won't ever get a better pitched game than you got from Bailey that day. Not to win that game just killed the Reds. Game four was a giveaway because of Cueto's injury and Leake had to start. Then a game five/deciding game is always a crap shoot. I felt after game three the Reds were in big trouble in that series and I still think they lost the series that night.

I said that to my friend as we were leaving the park that night. I just had a feeling they were cooked. It was like a morgue walking out of there that night. I'll never forget that vibe.

[AtomicDumpling]

I think the biggest reason people are pessimistic about this team is because they won 97 games last season and won the division easily. Most people expected the regular season to be a cake walk this year. They reasoned that the Reds won 97 games last year, replaced their biggest weakness (Drew Stubbs) with a stud player (Shin-soo Choo), Votto was healthy again and everyone else was back. So the Reds would "obviously" win more than 97 games this year and coast into the playoffs.

Unfortunately baseball doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. Peoples' expectations were sky high -- and totally unrealistic, so it is inevitable that the team failed to live up to the absurd expectations. That is why everyone is feeling disappointment with the team this year.

Just imagine how the Nationals' fans feel. They won 98 games last year, made some offseason upgrades and had a no-restrictions Stephen Strasburg to look forward to. That team has crashed and burned.

The lesson: Whatever happened last year has very little to do with this year. Every season is a whole new ballgame.

[Edskin]

I think the biggest reason people are pessimistic about this team is because they won 97 games last season and won the division easily. Most people expected the regular season to be a cake walk this year. They reasoned that the Reds won 97 games last year, replaced their biggest weakness (Drew Stubbs) with a stud player (Shin-soo Choo), Votto was healthy again and everyone else was back. So the Reds would "obviously" win more than 97 games this year and coast into the playoffs.

Unfortunately baseball doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. Peoples' expectations were sky high -- and totally unrealistic, so it is inevitable that the team failed to live up to the absurd expectations. That is why everyone is feeling disappointment with the team this year.

Just imagine how the Nationals' fans feel. They won 98 games last year, made some offseason upgrades and had a no-restrictions Stephen Strasburg to look forward to. That team has crashed and burned.

The lesson: Whatever happened last year has very little to do with this year. Every season is a whole new ballgame.

Winning the division back to back years for the first time in my lifetime was an absurd expectation?

[Captain Hook]

Winning the division back to back years for the first time in my lifetime was an absurd expectation?

Winning it easily is.

[Edskin]

Winning it easily is.

Can't speak for anyone else, but winning it "easily" was never on my radar as a fan. It would have been nice, sure. But not expected.

I will not call 2013 a disappointment yet because it is ongoing. If the Reds rallied and won the central by one game I'd consider it a very good regular season. If they lose it by one game I'd consider it a mild disappointment. Yes, one game can make that big of a difference.

Before the year I wanted two thing:

1. Win division
2. Advance to NLCS

If #2 happened as a WC, then it sort of makes #1 moot

Anything less than a result equaling #2 in this scenario is a disappointment to me.

If we aren't one of the last four teams standing this year I will consider it a disappointing outcome.

[muethibp]

The series still haunts me as a fan, something I wrote in an email to friends this morning before seeing this thread. Mostly because this year reminded me how hard it is to get so many things to fall into place at the right time, and we had that happen last year, and because it's not financially possible to keep together what we have had in recent years, I am personally left with the feeling that 2012 was likely the best chance to win a WS that we have had in a few decades and perhaps in the next few decades. And it was there for the not-so-difficult taking and it was blown.