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Thread: whats with attendance?

  1. #16
    Salukifan2
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Even more too... look at a map of St Louis and a map of Cincinnati, draw a 250 mile circle around each city, now imagine getting in a car and driving within that circle. From Cincinnati name all the major league teams in all sports, all the colleges with their sports (IU, UK, UC, OSU, Louisville)

    Then do it from St Louis.

    A lot less
    What college/professional sports are occupying people from June-aug? No one cares about football at iu, UK, UC. OSU AND louisville are the only ones where should take away. Only one of those towns has NBA to steal away during baseball season, Indy.

    Also add on top to Cincy that they are connected to all those major metropolitan areas by interstate. Making the drive much easier than for most Missourians and southern illinoisans

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  3. #17
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    What college/professional sports are occupying people from June-aug? No one cares about football at iu, UK, UC. OSU AND louisville are the only ones where should take away. Only one of those towns has NBA to steal away during baseball season, Indy.

    Also add on top to Cincy that they are connected to all those major metropolitan areas by interstate. Making the drive much easier than for most Missourians and southern illinoisans
    I'm talking dollars to sports year round (IE season tickets, travel plans etc)

  4. #18
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Okay, Minn and Milwaukee draw more for as much futility. And Pittsburgh isn't far behind and they've literally been the worst sports franchise since kids of drinking age were born. Atlanta draws poorly and they get a lot of grief.
    Yes it is "embarrassing" and that has nothing to do with my life (what else would I be embarrassed about in my everyday life?)
    Regardless, for what we all say of this team we are still making excuses ourselves and justifying mediocrity. And despite not living in cinci now like I said I've been to two of their games this year.

  5. #19
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    St Louis is a great baseball town.

    Cincinnati isn't.

    End of story.

  6. #20
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    When you include Dayton in the cincy metro (which it probably will be next census) cin-day has about 3.1 million. Add on lexington, which can be driven even in a work day, its more like 3.7 million. Make it a two hour radius around both cities and the population for the reds is about 7.5 mil. While that same radius with st. Louis would only add another 200,000 to 300,000.

    The "cincy's to small" argument is untrue.
    Who drives two hours to see a baseball game?

    I grew up in Dayton and wished I lived in Cincinnati because we only saw 3-5 games a year. We just didn't have the time to see anymore. Anything over a half hour and people just aren't going to make an effort on a regular basis to go. It becomes a special event, like going to Ozarks is in Saint Louis.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #21
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    St Louis is the outlier for a market of its size. Of course 7 NLCS appearances in the last decade+ doesn't hurt.

    Reds attendance is fine and has taken a big step forward over the last few seasons. The local TV ratings are off the charts and the summer weekends are now a tough ticket. 3K per game higher and the Reds are top 9 in baseball this season with the 28th sized local market.

    Have to keep building the season ticket base, that is the only way to draw 25-30K on the early season/Sept weeknights.

    Baltimore high teens this week, Arizona and Oakland mid teens this week, ATL low 20s, Yankees low 30s, lovable losers low 20s. Attendance is down 5-10K from average across the board. '

    But that's not as fun as blaming the locals for not getting too revved about a 2nd/3rd place showdown that is essentially arranging the chairs for playoff seeding. MLB and Football has succeeded in making September baseball almost completely irrelevant to the masses.

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  9. #22
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Who drives two hours to see a baseball game?

    I grew up in Dayton and wished I lived in Cincinnati because we only saw 3-5 games a year. We just didn't have the time to see anymore. Anything over a half hour and people just aren't going to make an effort on a regular basis to go. It becomes a special event, like going to Ozarks is in Saint Louis.
    While I lived in Indianapolis I drove to Cincinnati many, many times. When I lived in central California I drove 3 or 4 hours to see Dodgers, Giants, and Angels games.

    Last summer I drive 6 hours to Denver to see the Reds play the Rockies.

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  11. #23
    Salukifan2
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Who drives two hours to see a baseball game?

    I grew up in Dayton and wished I lived in Cincinnati because we only saw 3-5 games a year. We just didn't have the time to see anymore. Anything over a half hour and people just aren't going to make an effort on a regular basis to go. It becomes a special event, like going to Ozarks is in Saint Louis.
    This thread isn't a cincy VS. st. louis type thread. Its about the reds, so it doesn't make sense for you to draw comparisons to st. louis just because you know i'm a cards fan. That said, I live in Carbondale, 2 hours from st. louis and go to a minimum of 5 games a year. And unlike the folks in Indy, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus and Lexington I have to take a two lane state highway half the way to st. Louis. Meaning that if i get behind the right driver it may add 15 mins to my trip.

    Cincinnatii is at the cross roads of so many inteerstates that are connected to large markets 100 miles or less away, all of which are without MLB. They may have some old MLB allegiances like Louisville does with St. Louis, though I'm sure that is changing, and Noerthern Indy folks are mostly cub fans from what i've heard.

    Don't make the "the drive is too far" argument. If the product on the field is good, which it has been, then people will drive from a long way to see it. The argument that hasn't been brought up yet is that northern kentucky and southern indiana are basketball dominated areas and Ohio is a football dominated state (generalizations of course). More of you live in the area, are people there just not big baseball fans?

  12. #24
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    This thread isn't a cincy VS. st. louis type thread. Its about the reds, so it doesn't make sense for you to draw comparisons to st. louis just because you know i'm a cards fan. That said, I live in Carbondale, 2 hours from st. louis and go to a minimum of 5 games a year. And unlike the folks in Indy, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus and Lexington I have to take a two lane state highway half the way to st. Louis. Meaning that if i get behind the right driver it may add 15 mins to my trip.

    Cincinnatii is at the cross roads of so many inteerstates that are connected to large markets 100 miles or less away, all of which are without MLB. They may have some old MLB allegiances like Louisville does with St. Louis, though I'm sure that is changing, and Noerthern Indy folks are mostly cub fans from what i've heard.

    Don't make the "the drive is too far" argument. If the product on the field is good, which it has been, then people will drive from a long way to see it. The argument that hasn't been brought up yet is that northern kentucky and southern indiana are basketball dominated areas and Ohio is a football dominated state (generalizations of course). More of you live in the area, are people there just not big baseball fans?
    Exactly, you made my point. You go to five plus games a year. Most likely, weekends, or mid summer games. You probably can't afford the time to go to weekday games. If you have kids, it's even more difficult to go when school is in.

    The Reds do just fine mid summer and on weekends in terms of attendance, because they have fans coming from far away to see them. They come close to selling out most of those games. The big difference between St. Louis and Cincinnati attendance is the attendance of mid week games when school is in session. Reds have far fewer fans in the immediate area who attend those games, thus their attendance is low for them. The Cards have many more fans who live 20-30 minutes away from the stadium (around a million more or 40% more), so they have a much higher attendance for those games.

    The numbers for the Reds make sense for their market. They draw extremely well when people have time to make a day of going to the game and don't have to worry about getting up early the next day, because they have a large market within a two hour drive. They have one of the smallest markets of people who live within a 30 minute drive, and that shows up in the attendance of games played during the school year, during the week.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #25
    Salukifan2
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Exactly, you made my point. You go to five plus games a year. Most likely, weekends, or mid summer games. You probably can't afford the time to go to weekday games. If you have kids, it's even more difficult to go when school is in.

    The Reds do just fine mid summer and on weekends in terms of attendance, because they have fans coming from far away to see them. They come close to selling out most of those games. The big difference between St. Louis and Cincinnati attendance is the attendance of mid week games when school is in session. Reds have far fewer fans in the immediate area who attend those games, thus their attendance is low for them. The Cards have many more fans who live 20-30 minutes away from the stadium (around a million more or 40% more), so they have a much higher attendance for those games.

    The numbers for the Reds make sense for their market. They draw extremely well when people have time to make a day of going to the game and don't have to worry about getting up early the next day, because they have a large market within a two hour drive. They have one of the smallest markets of people who live within a 30 minute drive, and that shows up in the attendance of games played during the school year, during the week.
    The only thing with this that I disagree with is that folks in Dayton can't make it to a weeknight game. I don't care how successful the minor league team is. The st. Louis metro area may have a slightly larger corporate presence than cincy too and those folks buy up lots of season tickets. But, the ticket prices combined with the great product is why I think they should be drawing more

  14. #26
    Member Larkin88's Avatar
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    The only thing with this that I disagree with is that folks in Dayton can't make it to a weeknight game. I don't care how successful the minor league team is. The st. Louis metro area may have a slightly larger corporate presence than cincy too and those folks buy up lots of season tickets. But, the ticket prices combined with the great product is why I think they should be drawing more
    As much as you might think there aren't regional factors that are (and have always) contributed to the Reds attendance figures, I'm really going to have to respectfully disagree with you.

    Over the last 40 or so years, the Reds have averaged about 26,000 per game. That includes the 70's and Big Red Machine era. Yeah, they lead MLB in attendance in 1976, but averaged 32,500 a game. They have never sniffed 3,000,000 total attendance in a season. Basically, the 2013 Reds are just a little bit off pace of the 1976 club.

    There's some variance and there's some anomalies year-to-year, series-to-series, and even game-to-game. But by and large, and it sort of pains me to say this, the attendance "is what it is." Competitive teams help with ticket sales and the Reds have been trending in the right direction for the last four years... but by and large, the attendance ceiling is just not as high as it is in St. Louis'.

    As a Reds fan, it sucks. Certainly there's room for improvement and the fanbase should aspire for it. But history seems to indicate there is definitely a cap of reasonable expectation. And given that reality, it's hard not to partially attribute it to some of the regional and logistical realities that are associated with living in Southwest Ohio.

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  16. #27
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    The only thing with this that I disagree with is that folks in Dayton can't make it to a weeknight game. I don't care how successful the minor league team is. The st. Louis metro area may have a slightly larger corporate presence than cincy too and those folks buy up lots of season tickets. But, the ticket prices combined with the great product is why I think they should be drawing more
    I used to live in Centerville, just south of Dayton. Right at 45 miles north of the Brent Spence Bridge. So for a 7:10 game, 3 hour game, 15 minutes back to my car, minimum 60 minutes back to my house, lucky to be in bed by midnight. Have to be in the office by 8. Not to mention, I had to leave south Dayton by 5:45 to be in the park by first pitch.

    For a weeknight game, I would do it on the rare occasion that someone gave me tickets or there was a special event or a great pitching matchup. But on the regular? No. For weekends, yeah. Did it all the time. Sometimes for all 3 games of a weekend series.

    When you go more than about 30-45 minutes drive for a game, you start losing a lot of people for midweek games.

    I will also add that I-75 between Cincy and Dayton is ALWAYS under construction and a lot of folks don't like fighting it.
    Last edited by dabvu2498; 09-07-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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  18. #28
    Salukifan2
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    sort of OT, but is cincy planning to ever build some sort of light rail between Dayton and Cincy? I think the metrolink has played a huge roll in drawing people to games in StL that maybe wouldn't have come.

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  20. #29
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    sort of OT, but is cincy planning to ever build some sort of light rail between Dayton and Cincy? I think the metrolink has played a huge roll in drawing people to games in StL that maybe wouldn't have come.
    Don't won't to get political, but anything requiring cooperation between multiple governments will probably not happen in Southwest Ohio.

  21. #30
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    Re: whats with attendance?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Don't won't to get political, but anything requiring cooperation between multiple governments will probably not happen in Southwest Ohio.
    Like the Banks?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160


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