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Thread: So Hamilton is electric

  1. #91
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    The other team will be doing everything in its power not to walk him, while we complain, "Why isn't he walking?" The question should be, what is he doing with the pitches he gets. It's the reverse of Votto, where the other team is relieved when he walks. With Hamilton, a walk is the other team's nightmare.

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  3. #92
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So far he hasn't gotten on base one time on his own. He's light speed fast, but that was never really the question. Sitting through three and four consecutive days of o-fers to get to see him run once or twice a week when he does get on will be a lot different than seeing him as a pinch runner. In this final month of expanded rosters, he doesn't cost the team anything by being an extra weapon sitting on the bench waiting to run for Ludwick or one of the catchers late in the game. That is far different than penciling him in as the starting CF.

    .308 OBP in AAA. What is the expectation for that as a major leaguer? I've seen people say if he can do .315 or .320 he'd be valuable with his speed and defense. I'd say that is a pretty unlikely outcome given his AAA OBP. My expectations are more in the .250 to .275 OBP range.

    I actually suggested calling him up anyway around mid-season when Ludwick was out and LF was a shambles. The idea was that maybe his speed could spark the team, but it was only as a last resort since the other options weren't any good. I still feel that way about 2014. The Reds should find other options ahead of Hamilton to man CF. He needs to get on base in AAA before being handed a job in the big leagues.
    Does everyone here think it absolutely out of the question that the team could pay to keep Choo? Probably other threads on that I need to look up.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  4. #93
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Hamilton CF opening day 2014. Save your money with choo or a stopgap. Get the pick for choo. Replace his production with a third basemen or maybe a left fielder preferably right handed and controlled in the future so money isn't wasted on a stop gap or a player people fall in love with and we can't keep. A one two punch of Hamilton and Phillips 1 2 will be at least as good as choo and fill in the weak hitter that we've had most of this year. Especially with ludwick a better right handed bat or both in the lineup. I don't want to hear abouts BPs obp this year. Batting cleanup he was obviously trying to drive in runs more so than just get on. The lineup will be fine in a situation like that and it will invest in a player that can stay for a few seasons.

  5. #94
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    People have no issue starting Cozart with his .275 OBP, but wring their hands over the idea that, at 22, Hamilton might do the same. I don't get it. No, scratch that, I do; folks are superstitiously worried that learning at the MLB might short-circuit his development, or something. When the evidence on that is largely anecdata.

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  7. #95
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    People have no issue starting Cozart with his .275 OBP, but wring their hands over the idea that, at 22, Hamilton might do the same. I don't get it. No, scratch that, I do; folks are superstitiously worried that learning at the MLB might short-circuit his development, or something. When the evidence on that is largely anecdata.
    I agree. We act like he hits like a pitcher, and that's not the case at all.

  8. #96
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    People have no issue starting Cozart with his .275 OBP, but wring their hands over the idea that, at 22, Hamilton might do the same. I don't get it. No, scratch that, I do; folks are superstitiously worried that learning at the MLB might short-circuit his development, or something. When the evidence on that is largely anecdata.
    It's .285 and he's on a 13 game hitting streak. Plus none of us should mention having a problem with a low Reds players OB% in the lineup or Phillips will go "all bully" on us.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  9. #97
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    People have no issue starting Cozart with his .275 OBP, but wring their hands over the idea that, at 22, Hamilton might do the same. I don't get it. No, scratch that, I do; folks are superstitiously worried that learning at the MLB might short-circuit his development, or something. When the evidence on that is largely anecdata.
    People don't have a problem with Cozart starting right now because he is literally the only shortstop in the organization right now who could OBP .225 in the Majors and actually play defense.

    Hamilton isn't close to the only option as an outfielder.

    That is why you see such a huge difference in the "play that guy" mindset with the two players.

  10. #98
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    People don't have a problem with Cozart starting right now because he is literally the only shortstop in the organization right now who could OBP .225 in the Majors and actually play defense.

    Hamilton isn't close to the only option as an outfielder.

    That is why you see such a huge difference in the "play that guy" mindset with the two players.
    Hamilton's far and away this organization's best CF defensively. I know the issue this season is the money tied up in Ludwick, but Choo, Hamilton, Bruce is a no brainer when Ludwick went down.

  11. #99
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Hamilton's far and away this organization's best CF defensively. I know the issue this season is the money tied up in Ludwick, but Choo, Hamilton, Bruce is a no brainer when Ludwick went down.
    Hamilton is very good in center. I won't argue there at all.

    Given the hindsight of how terrible Hamilton was for the first 12 weeks of the AAA season though, the Reds made the right call. AAA pitchers owned him. Major League ones would have made him look like a pitcher at the plate.

  12. #100
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So far he hasn't gotten on base one time on his own. He's light speed fast, but that was never really the question. Sitting through three and four consecutive days of o-fers to get to see him run once or twice a week when he does get on will be a lot different than seeing him as a pinch runner. In this final month of expanded rosters, he doesn't cost the team anything by being an extra weapon sitting on the bench waiting to run for Ludwick or one of the catchers late in the game. That is far different than penciling him in as the starting CF.

    .308 OBP in AAA. What is the expectation for that as a major leaguer? I've seen people say if he can do .315 or .320 he'd be valuable with his speed and defense. I'd say that is a pretty unlikely outcome given his AAA OBP. My expectations are more in the .250 to .275 OBP range.

    I actually suggested calling him up anyway around mid-season when Ludwick was out and LF was a shambles. The idea was that maybe his speed could spark the team, but it was only as a last resort since the other options weren't any good. I still feel that way about 2014. The Reds should find other options ahead of Hamilton to man CF. He needs to get on base in AAA before being handed a job in the big leagues.
    I agree he needs to get on base to make it as a starter, but looking at his year end totals in his first year in AAA as a 22 year old, doesn't tell us much.

    He did get on base at a .324 clip the second half of the season, so he's already shown some improvement. Who knows what he would do at the major league level, he's still developing and getting better at everything, every day.

    But watching him in just his PR appearances, shines a light of what he can do, even if he doesn't get on base much. His speed is like power for other guys, in that it gives him extra bases. It might not advance other runners, but it certainly puts pressure on the defense and pitcher, improving the production of those hitting around him. Throw in that he is at least league average already defensively in CF, the third most important position defensively, and it's easy to see him being a productive all around player, even with a sub .300 OBP.

    I don't think he's ready to be the Reds CF, but worst case and he has to be next season, he'd easily provide similar overall production to what Stubbs did in 2012, when the Reds won 97 games and the division. I'm hoping that the Reds could do better than that, but I don't think it hurts them if they have to start 2014 with Hamilton in CF.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
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  14. #101
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Right now, Billy Hamilton is like the closer of offense.

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  16. #102
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    People have no issue starting Cozart with his .275 OBP, but wring their hands over the idea that, at 22, Hamilton might do the same. I don't get it. No, scratch that, I do; folks are superstitiously worried that learning at the MLB might short-circuit his development, or something. When the evidence on that is largely anecdata.
    People did have huge issues with Cozart and his OBP when he was hitting lead off or second last year and second earlier this season. Now that Cozart is 7 or 8th in the lineup the issue is much reduced.

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  18. #103
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Right now, Billy Hamilton is like the closer of offense.
    You have to save those for "Random Thoughts"
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  19. #104
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    You have to save those for "Random Thoughts"
    Or..."Deep Thoughts with Jack Handey" ??
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  20. #105
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    People have no issue starting Cozart with his .275 OBP, but wring their hands over the idea that, at 22, Hamilton might do the same. I don't get it. No, scratch that, I do; folks are superstitiously worried that learning at the MLB might short-circuit his development, or something. When the evidence on that is largely anecdata.
    In CF there are stopgaps available who could do a lot better than that. SS, not so much.

    Cozart, BTW, adds extra base hits to the mix. Hamilton will need to get on base and then give the defense a second chance to get him out to get to second.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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