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Thread: So Hamilton is electric

  1. #121
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    I know you're just going to judge by ops not overall potential and age so idk...

    Beltre
    Machado
    Middlebrooks
    Freese
    Headley
    Sandoval
    Cabrerra
    Longoria
    Should I continue?

    He's our least productive starter per position.

    Juan uribe has comparable numbers offensively. Michael young has a way more disciplined bat. The dude is a great clubhouse guy. Great as a supersub when you can pick your spots for him like last year, but as our starters go he'd be the easiest to replace with an upgrade.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 09-08-2013 at 09:11 PM.

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  3. #122
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I know you're just going to judge by ops not overall potential and age so idk...

    Beltre
    Machado
    Middlebrooks
    Freese
    Headley
    Sandoval
    Cabrerra
    Longoria
    Should I continue?

    He's our least productive starter per position.
    Freese, Sandoval, and Headley? Um, no, they are defensive statues. Machado, maybe. The other guys, sure, but they cost a trillion bucks, not what I'd call an easy replacement. Catcher and short are much easier upgrades. The Reds gave away a better overall SS in Gregorius just this offseason.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 09-08-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  4. #123
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    IMO Frazier isn't that hard to replace. I'd more than likely go there unless you can get a stud quality outfielder to play left. But I'd trade a pitcher for a thirdbaseman. Probably bailey or cueto depending on if you can get bailey to resign. At that point you'd either have to resign Bronson, or take a risk and start Stephenson in the bigs next year.

    Idk but a rotation of latos bailey cingrani leake and Stephenson doesn't sound too bad to me. Even if you didn't want to go Stephenson move chapman to the rotation or explore outside options.

    Preferably cueto is the guy for me to move if you can extend homer. He's a number one but I think he's maxed out while bailey and latos are improving.
    So who is the 3B that could be added that would be enough of an upgrade from Frazier to offset the downgrade from Choo to Hamilton? I don't think that player exists. Same goes for SS and C IMO. The best plan is to minimize the drop-off from Choo. Hamilton may prove to be that guy, but a veteran stop gap is needed in case Hamilton proves to be Paul Janish with the stick.

    Bring in a guy to be the stopgap with the idea that Hamilton can win the job when he's shown the improvement. Handing it to him off the bat isn't a move a contending team should make. If the Reds were a rebuilding 5th place team it would be different. Let him learn on the job then, but I just can't get behind that risk with a team that's supposed to win.
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  6. #124
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Freese, Sandoval, and Headley? Um, no, they are defensive statues. Machado, maybe. The other guys, sure, but they cost a trillion bucks, not what I'd call an easy replacement.
    Ill give you statue status on Sandoval. Million trillion bucks? I think the sox would at least listen to cueto or bailey for middlebrooks. Take away choos salary and either homer or cueto an headleys salary could be easily picked up. I don't think Juan uribe or Michael young would be all that expensive next year. If you're dealing a pitcher of bailey/cueto quality like I was thinking I'm sure there's a 3b prospect that would at least match Frazier. Guess I missed the Frazier kool aid meeting at the beginning of the season.

  7. #125
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    I got into the whole Frazier thing in the sundeck. I have my opinion and most people here have theirs. Let this thread be about Hamilton. Ill watch Frazier flail and hit 230 and play average D and occasionally go yard.

  8. #126
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Ill give you statue status on Sandoval. Million trillion bucks? I think the sox would at least listen to cueto or bailey for middlebrooks. Take away choos salary and either homer or cueto an headleys salary could be easily picked up. I don't think Juan uribe or Michael young would be all that expensive next year. If you're dealing a pitcher of bailey/cueto quality like I was thinking I'm sure there's a 3b prospect that would at least match Frazier. Guess I missed the Frazier kool aid meeting at the beginning of the season.
    Of course Young and Uribe will be cheap. They're old and terrible defensively and forgettable offensively. I'm telling you, there are few guys more all around talented and as inexpensive as Frazier. Maybe no one.

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  10. #127
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Middlebrooks is an interesting name. Those others are going to cost so much, I'd just re-sign Choo. Not interested in Young or Sandoval. Machado, Longoria, Cabrera and Beltre aren't realistic names. Headley will be too costly. I think the Sox are thinking about Middlebrooks at 1B when Napoli leaves town and based on minor league numbers, I'm not sure he's really a lock to be an upgrade..

    The best guy out there to possibly deal for might be Trevor Plouffe and he is very similar to Frazier. Just not seeing the upgrade.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  12. #128
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Middlebrooks is an interesting name. Those others are going to cost so much, I'd just re-sign Choo. Not interested in Young or Sandoval. Machado, Longoria, Cabrera and Beltre aren't realistic names. Headley will be too costly. I think the Sox are thinking about Middlebrooks at 1B when Napoli leaves town and based on minor league numbers, I'm not sure he's really a lock to be an upgrade..

    The best guy out there to possibly deal for might be Trevor Plouffe and he is very similar to Frazier. Just not seeing the upgrade.
    I just don't think Frazier is as good as people think. I can't quantify it. Just a feeling I get when I watch. I don't think an upgrade would be that hard to find. He's I'm his late 20s not like he's a young highly ranked prospect learning the ropes.

  13. #129
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by 1940757690 View Post
    Does that jive with what the experts here understand and, if so, how likely he ends up playing in October in your view given that (I think) the only two on our DL on Aug 31st were Cueto and Marshall? maybe Broxton?
    I believe Massett is still on the DL too.
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  14. #130
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    .308 OBP in AAA. What is the expectation for that as a major leaguer? I've seen people say if he can do .315 or .320 he'd be valuable with his speed and defense. I'd say that is a pretty unlikely outcome given his AAA OBP. My expectations are more in the .250 to .275 OBP range.
    .
    My hope is that he's not a finished product yet. Start him in AAA next season, evaluate at about midseason. Hamilton had a better 2nd half in AAA than first half.
    I agree this AAA season was underwhelming, but I think he's still a work in progress.

    If it's any comfort, one of the minor league coaches (I can't remember who) said he thinks Billy can eventually be a 300 hitter in the big leagues. Obviously, not a guarantee, but other players have improved by repeating a level in the minors.

    I think we're going to have to wait until 2015 for Billy to make an impact at the ML level.
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  15. #131
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    3b has been one of the weakest positions for a long time now. It makes Beltre and Rolen's cases for the HOF that much stronger for me. The shadow of Mike Schmidt runs a little too long in terms of defining the position.

    As for Billy, I hesitate to send him back to AAA next year at all with the way he's having an impact beyond what Izturis has. I think there would be a good amount of wisdom in giving him a little more time there if you want him reacquainted with the infield, but other than that, he can help you win games now as it is. I know the struggles at the plate are a concern, but I think it can work itself out in spring training. Does anyone know what the wrist guard is for on Billy?

  16. #132
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by 1940757690 View Post
    This is too myopic in my respectfully-submitted view. The big unknown with Billy is whether all the time in AAA developed his bat to really perform as needed as a leadoff hitter next year or whenever. Agree the kid is totally electric, exciting and game changing as a late inning pinch-runner. But, if we could count on him to maybe hit .270 with a good BB count, he'd be even more valuable, no? Bottom of the order type.

    To be clear, I'm NOT arguing that he should hit in post-season. Certainly not if he doesn't get a dozen or more AB with good results this month. But I do think it'd be a good thing for him to get some AB opportunity before season end even if we don't clinch the division unitl the last few days or at all.
    I don't think you're completely wrong I just think that at this point in the season you go with what you know. Getting guys experience and figuring out what you might have during the month of Sept is what teams that are out of it do.

  17. #133
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    I figured I'd post these two thoughts here since it is a thread titled "So Hamilton is Electric".

    On Friday night, we were sitting in the centerfield bleachers. My wife commented after he stole his base, that by the time she took her eye off of the batter and looked to second, Hamilton was already there.

    Saturday, as we went to extra innings, we moved to the lower level in the upper deck to get away from a negative Nellie sitting behind us. It was right along the first base line. When Hamilton went in to run, I mentioned to my wife how his leg was just twitching, ready to take off. His Mom mentioned that in a story in today's paper. My wife said she was seeing that too.

    Finally, today's paper said the Reds have timed Hamilton from the time he takes off to sliding into the base as 2.9 seconds. They wrote that an above average time to the plate is 1.1 seconds and an above average time back to second is 1.9 seconds. That's three seconds and with it being above average on both sides of the equation.

    If Hamilton ultimately can find his way to 1st base on his own (and obviously, at this point, he hasn't found that opportunity yet), he's likely going to be an exciting player.
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  19. #134
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I certainly appreciate that as a joke, and even smirked a bit myself, but I have to defend Mike Lincoln. I've worked in the bar industry for a long time, and if you're working at the right place you'll see a lot of athletes. I've met many Reds and Bengals players over the years. I've BS' d with them and went our seperate ways and they never remembered me. I've also gotten to know some guys who will see me and approach me to say hi.
    But the friendliest, most down to earth, most gracious athlete I've ever come across is Mike Lincoln. He's truly one of a kind in that regard.
    I understand the jabs based on his productivity, but I think its worth noting that he may be one of the most fan friendly gentleman to play for this club in some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  20. #135
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    Re: So Hamilton is electric

    I don't see any scenario in which the Reds would use up a playoff spot for a player who's only talent is running and stealing bases.

    For that to happen, that player would have to be proficient with either the glove or the bat. As of today, Hamilton is neither.

    Playoff roster spots are just too valuable, and if someone gets injured, you're screwed. It is fun to watch him run, though.
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