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Thread: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

  1. #31
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    The batting lines for Ramirez is very good(.337 .383 .614).
    But he had played in just 74 games for the Dodgers this season.
    So, even if he plays in all remaining games(21 games), it will be just 95 games.

    Besides, excellent batting lines for Ramirez are partially due to his short playing time, especially SLG.
    His RC(Runs Created) is just 54th in NL with 59.5.
    Ramirez has no chance and deserves no chance-74 games played at this stage of the season rules him out.
    I expect the MVPs to be Cabrera and McCutcheon.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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  3. #32
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Mike Trout and Andrew McCutcheon. I don't think it's particularly close.
    Is WAR(A stupid stat) your yardstick of the judgment?
    Please get rid of your obsession over WAR.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/...s-still-better
    WAR seems to underrate great defensive catchers (NL MVP candidate Yadier Molina's WAR is 5.0), as even the stat guys will admit. The problem with WAR and catchers apparently is the range factor, which leads to an under-grading of some catchers. But is it possible the range factor leads to an over-grading of some center fielders, as well? WAR requires personal judgments, and may need some refining. Check out the WAR of Carlos Gomez (6.7, fifth best in baseball) and Gerardo Parra (5.1, tied for 20th best). Now it's possible they are indeed the fifth- and 20th-best players in baseball this year. But I doubt it. According to these figures, Parra is tied with Adrian Beltre and ahead of a plethora of other stars despite his mundane .725 OPS, and Gomez (.832 OPS) is ahead of everyone but Trout, Andrew McCutchen, Cabrera and Robinson Cano -- and he's barely behind Cabrera and Cano at that.
    Even within the center-field ranks, WAR looks pretty suspect. Shin-Soo Choo, who has helped make the Reds go with his second-in-the-NL .425 on-base percentage, has a 3.7 WAR. One spot ahead of Choo is Mets rookie Juan Lagares, at 3.8.

    Now Lagares is pretty terrific defensively in center field while Choo is merely adequate (though with a great arm). But Lagares' OPS is exactly 200 points lower than Choo's (.696 to .896) and Lagares has come to the plate almost 300 times less, which matters since WAR is a cumulative stat. Lagares has just 324 at-bats and 15 walks, Choo 516 at-bats and 97 walks.

    So with barely more than half the plate appearances, Lagares has managed to contribute more than Choo. At least if you believe WAR, he has.

  4. #33
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Cabrera's the easy choice in AL.

    I think NL may be determined this month. Too hard to call right now.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  5. #34
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    AL - Cabrera
    NL - Y. Molina

    Please don't throw stones.

  6. #35
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    If I was picking, Trout in the AL, McCutchen in the NL.

    Who I think will win, Cabrera in the AL and McCutchen in the NL.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  8. #36
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    I just don't see Trout winning it with how the Angels have played this year. Cabrera is going to make the playoffs, Trout isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That is how it will be. But it isn't how it should be.
    That is the way it has always been. And right, wrong or indifferent, that is how it will probably always be. History has shown us a player from a non-playoff team has to have a season that far outshadows all others to be named MVP.

    I've said it many times on here. If they want to change it to best player, they should rename it Most Outstanding Player like NCAA basketball did. Until then, I think the overwhelming majority of the voters will continue to interpret "valuable" as being linked to team success.

  9. #37
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Just curious. For those of you who are picking Mike Trout over Miguel Cabrera....what are your reasons? Could you guys show me what factors are pushing you to Trout over Miggy? Is it just WAR?
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  10. #38
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Just curious. For those of you who are picking Mike Trout over Miguel Cabrera....what are your reasons? Could you guys show me what factors are pushing you to Trout over Miggy? Is it just WAR?
    I think it is just WAR.

  11. #39
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    I think it is just WAR.
    WARmongers!!!
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  12. #40
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Just curious. For those of you who are picking Mike Trout over Miguel Cabrera....what are your reasons? Could you guys show me what factors are pushing you to Trout over Miggy? Is it just WAR?
    Look at Miguel Cabrera's stats and besides more HR power (Trout has more doubles+triples) and more RBI opportunities (Cabrera hits 3rd, Trout leads off), what exactly makes him so much more better than Trout?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  13. #41
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Look at Miguel Cabrera's stats and besides more HR power (Trout has more doubles+triples) and more RBI opportunities (Cabrera hits 3rd, Trout leads off), what exactly makes him so much more better than Trout?
    He plays on a winning team?
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  14. #42
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Look at Miguel Cabrera's stats and besides more HR power (Trout has more doubles+triples) and more RBI opportunities (Cabrera hits 3rd, Trout leads off), what exactly makes him so much more better than Trout?
    Okay, by that same argument, one of the big reasons his war is higher is defense and GIDP's. Doesn't Cabrera also have many more opportunities for GIDP's due to batting order slot? IMO too much emphasis is placed on SB's in that formula. Not to mention that the defensive metrics are nowhere close to good. Lastly, people talk about WAR like it's a good measuring stick for comparing players...but it's only good for comparing players who play the same position, right? Just because the AL centerfield crop is a big bag of suck offensively shouldn't give him such a big bump over what Cabrera's done.

    Yes, he has more 2b & 3b. But what about RC? Runs scored? Total bases? Not to mention that his counting stats have been boosted by more plate appearaces. I'm not trying to belittle Trout, but outside of one stat (WAR) I simply don't see them as being even REMOTELY close.

    Last year I could see it because the difference in things like RC and runs scored and the huge difference in defensive WAR. Those things just aren't true this year. The things that supposedly give Trout the edge...are neck and neck. So for me it goes back to the slash lines and counting stats. And those are hugely in Cabrera's favor.

    .353/.446/.667/1.113 43 hr / 133 rbi / 331 tb / 96 r / 69 xbh / 86 k
    .338/.437/.572/1.009 23 hr / 84 rbi / 303 tb / 96 r / 69 xbh / 115 k

    I just see some of the enhanced stats as flawed. The biggest edge WAR gives Trout is on the basepaths. Yet he hasn't scored more runs even in more plate appearances? So how effective are those SB's? So maybe he's created more runs by his prowess on the basepaths? Nope. Edge to Miggy. He's scored more runs per game, he's knocked in more runs by a wide margin....how are the RC numbers even close? How about the defense. We all know that Cabrera is a poor 3bman, DWAR has him at -1.4. But guess what, Trout is at a -0.9 too. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it or buying it. Flawed stats.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 09-10-2013 at 10:04 AM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  15. #43
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Look at Miguel Cabrera's stats and besides more HR power (Trout has more doubles+triples) and more RBI opportunities (Cabrera hits 3rd, Trout leads off), what exactly makes him so much more better than Trout?
    According to fWAR,
    *Carlos Gomez(127 wRC+) over Joey Votto(155), Shin-Soo Choo(153), Matt Carpenter(144), Paul Goldschmidt(148)

    *Andrelton Simmons(88) over Jason Kipnis(130), David Ortiz(151), Freddie Freeman(138), Carlos Santana(131), Jay Bruce(120)

    *Ian Desmond(123) over Shin-Soo Choo(153), Paul Goldschmidt(148), Buster Posey(144), Yadier Molina(135)

    *Manny Machado(108) over Joey Votto(155), Shin-Soo Choo(153), Matt Carpenter(144), Paul Goldschmidt(148), Robinson Cano(139)

    *Russel Martin(109) over David Ortiz(151), Edwin Encarnacion(148), Freddie Freeman(138), Jay Bruce(120)

    *Denard Span(100) over Allen Craig(134), Matt Holliday(133)

    *Shane Victorino(120) over Shin-Soo Choo(153), Paul Goldschmidt(148), Buster Posey(144), Yadier Molina(135)

    *Jacoby Ellsbury(111) over Shin-Soo Choo(153), Paul Goldschmidt(148), Buster Posey(144), Robinson Cano(139)

    *Gerardo Parra(96) over Freddie Freeman(138), Jay Bruce(120)

    The list is endless.

    Just too much weight to the defense and baserunning.

  16. #44
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Okay, by that same argument, one of the big reasons his war is higher is defense and GIDP's. Doesn't Cabrera also have many more opportunities for GIDP's due to batting order slot? IMO too much emphasis is placed on SB's in that formula. Not to mention that the defensive metrics are nowhere close to good. Lastly, people talk about WAR like it's a good measuring stick for comparing players...but it's only good for comparing players who play the same position, right? Just because the AL centerfield crop is a big bag of suck offensively shouldn't give him such a big bump over what Cabrera's done.

    Yes, he has more 2b & 3b. But what about RC? Runs scored? Total bases? Not to mention that his counting stats have been boosted by more plate appearaces. I'm not trying to belittle Trout, but outside of one stat (WAR) I simply don't see them as being even REMOTELY close.

    Last year I could see it because the difference in things like RC and runs scored and the huge difference in defensive WAR. Those things just aren't true this year. The things that supposedly give Trout the edge...are neck and neck. So for me it goes back to the slash lines and counting stats. And those are hugely in Cabrera's favor.

    .353/.446/.667/1.113 43 hr / 133 rbi / 331 tb / 96 r / 69 xbh / 86 k
    .338/.437/.572/1.009 23 hr / 84 rbi / 303 tb / 96 r / 69 xbh / 115 k

    I just see some of the enhanced stats as flawed. The biggest edge WAR gives Trout is on the basepaths. Yet he hasn't scored more runs even in more plate appearances? So how effective are those SB's? So maybe he's created more runs by his prowess on the basepaths? Nope. Edge to Miggy. He's scored more runs per game, he's knocked in more runs by a wide margin....how are the RC numbers even close? How about the defense. We all know that Cabrera is a poor 3bman, DWAR has him at -1.4. But guess what, Trout is at a -0.9 too. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it or buying it. Flawed stats.
    No.

    Andrelton Simmons: 88 wRC+, 4.1 WAR
    Jean Segura: 111 wRC+, 3.5 WAR

    Manny Machado: 108 wRC+, 6.0 WAR
    Adrian Beltre: 137 wRC+, 4.9 WAR

  17. #45
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Who are your favorites for AL/NL MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Is WAR(A stupid stat) your yardstick of the judgment?
    Please get rid of your obsession over WAR.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/...s-still-better
    Joy. Another, WAR suggests my current way of thinking might be wrong, therefore it is silly and should be ignored, article.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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