Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 48 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 708

Thread: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

  1. #16
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,383

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I will disagree with some of it. If everyone is striking out, which Dusty says they are, it doesn't make it any more or less difficult to win.

    I also don't agree with disliking where the game is going.

    You know why strikeouts are more prevalent than ever before? Part of it is people swinging for power. But part of it is that pitchers are just freaking better. Again, Homer Bailey and Mat Latos, starting pitchers, have sliders, SLIDERS that average velocity more than the 1985 MLB FASTBALL averaged. But, this is probably a side discussion.
    The "not liking where the game is going" part, I took that to be about people not being embarrassed about K'ing anymore.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  2. Likes:

    Big Klu (09-14-2013), RANDY IN INDY (09-14-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,489

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    The "not liking where the game is going" part, I took that to be about people not being embarrassed about K'ing anymore.
    Why should they be embarrased? Send the pitchers from today back to the 70's. Guys would be striking out 100+ times too. As someone who played the game for as long as he did, Dusty really should understand just how much better pitchers are today than ever before.

    Again, the Reds have two starters with breaking balls that they throw faster than the average fastball in the game 30 years ago. Guys are striking out more today? Of course they are. Look at how good the pitching is.

  5. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,787

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Dusty's point is not well stated IMO but is pretty clear and absolutely correct.

    He's commenting on the notion that strikeouts don't matter. Some folks these days repeatedly say that strikeouts are just outs and aren't bad.

    Dusty is saying that if you strike out, you don't make contact which is bad. Contact is better than non-contact.

    I've made the point often. The impact of a K is the same as any out. But the impact of failing to make contact is usually to eliminate the possibility of a successful at bat.

  6. Likes:

    Always Red (09-14-2013), Donder (09-14-2013), dubc47834 (09-14-2013), Number_Fourteen (09-15-2013), RANDY IN INDY (09-14-2013), WVRedsFan (09-14-2013)

  7. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why should they be embarrased?
    Because they got beat in the AB.

    Hitters understand baseball is hard. They understand they can't get a hit every time up. They understand baseball is a game of failure. It doesn't (and shouldn't) keep them from getting upset when they lose a battle.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  8. Likes:

    Hoosier Red (09-14-2013)

  9. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,489

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Because they got beat in the AB.

    Hitters understand baseball is hard. They understand they can't get a hit every time up. They understand baseball is a game of failure. It doesn't (and shouldn't) keep them from getting upset when they lose a battle.
    If you make most outs, you got beat in the AB though.

  10. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If you make most outs, you got beat in the AB though.
    I agree. Baseball is a game a failure.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  11. #22
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,914

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    1. In the quote Baker does kinda attack the stat backers, and from reading Dusty's words, I don't think he really understands the argument for why strikeouts are ok.

    2. As a result of this, his advocacy for "be aggressive in the zone" is often misinterpreted because of the way he communicates it (such as in this quote, I don't think he said what it thinks he means.

    3. As a player Baker walked about 50-60 times a season and struck out 70-80 times a season. This isn't a guy that was completely averse to drawing walks and swinging at strikes, it's consistent with a guy that is being aggressive in the zone and taking the ones he can't it.

    For the millionth time, no, Dusty Baker is not a stat king, and no he doesn't properly appreciate the stats that he commonly tosses out. But he is a guy that depsite his old school background and propensity to bunt and do other annoying things, he very well understands the duties of a hitter, and it's not really fair to harp on every two line quote that he spouts off because he doesn't communicate his beliefs particularly well. The Reds are generally getting a sufficient alotment of runs and walks from their offensive talent, I don't think the Reds offense is being severly hindered by a few off-quotes he makes to the media. As usual, these threads begin and end with the same annoying and mostly uniformed discussion.

  12. Likes:

    dubc47834 (09-14-2013), IslandRed (09-15-2013), marcshoe (09-16-2013), Number_Fourteen (09-15-2013), RedlegJake (09-14-2013), _Sir_Charles_ (09-14-2013)

  13. #23
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If you make most outs, you got beat in the AB though.
    Although An Out Is An Out, As A Hitter, I'll Always Take A Hard Line Drive At Somebody Over A Strikeout.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #24
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,489

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Although An Out Is An Out, As A Hitter, I'll Always Take A Hard Line Drive At Somebody Over A Strikeout.
    Certainly.

  15. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,787

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    An out is an out. But contact is better than no contact.

  16. #26
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,489

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    An out is an out. But contact is better than no contact.
    Not if you trade two outs for one out because you ground into a double play, or bunt into a pop up double play or something of that ilk.

  17. Likes:

    AtomicDumpling (09-14-2013), Raisor (09-14-2013)

  18. #27
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Why should Dusty be fired for being right?

    Strikeouts might be just another out, but unlike other outs, you can't score or have an opportunity to score if you don't make contact. It's always been a little bit hypocritical to praise pitchers who can avoid bats but not criticize hitters for missing pitches.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  19. Likes:

    Always Red (09-14-2013), dubc47834 (09-14-2013), Old school 1983 (09-14-2013), TSJ55 (09-14-2013)

  20. #28
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,691

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Not if you trade two outs for one out because you ground into a double play, or bunt into a pop up double play or something of that ilk.
    Is it possible to use BABIP to see whether the downside of a double play is greater than the downside of not making contact for a given player?

  21. #29
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,489

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Why should Dusty be fired for being right?

    Strikeouts might be just another out, but unlike other outs, you can't score or have an opportunity to score if you don't make contact. It's always been a little bit hypocritical to praise pitchers who can avoid bats but not criticize hitters for missing pitches.
    I have seen plenty of run scoring opportunities begin because a player walked. I have also seen several walks be good for RBI.

  22. #30
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,568

    Re: "No matter what the stat boys say, you put the ball in play." - Dusty

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have seen plenty of run scoring opportunities begin because a player walked. I have also seen several walks be good for RBI.
    You're not walking when you strike out.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25