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Thread: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

  1. #211
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    Asking that question of Milwaukee and St. Louis is fair. The other cities are so much bigger than Cincinnati that you can't really include them in this discussion. I would almost guarantee there are more people without kids in NYC and Chicago than the total amount of people in Cincinnati.
    Fair point but if all teams live in cities with this problem, let's not pretend that the problem is unique to Cincinnati.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Having a more vibrant urban core and better city neighborhoods would help -- white flight pushed a lot of the middle-class suburbs out to places like West Chester, Loveland, and Mason. The trip to the ballpark becomes more of an ordeal when it's 30+ minutes there and 30+ minutes back.

    For myself, living 5 minutes from downtown, a nice night and a lack of other plans are all it takes to get me to the yard.
    Again, another good point but a lot of cities are in this boat as well. And that's not a problem the Reds - or any other team - can fix just by themselves. The Reds have to figure out ways to draw more people despite those issues. That series with the Dodgers only drew 108K and change despite the BRM being there, despite one of the most exciting young players in baseball coming in, despite perfect weather, despite it being the 1st place ancient rival Dodgers, despite the Reds taking 3 of 4 from StL. I was at that Saturday game. If there were 40K there, there were about 7K disguised as empty seats. There were blocks of seats all around me that were empty and the same goes for all around the stadium.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  3. #212
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread so I'm sure this point has been made, but I don't understand why this comes up in a year where we set an all-time attendance record. So all the previous 100+ years, the fans sucked even worse?

    Maybe Ludwick had more time to think about this kind of thing, not playing most of the year.
    itīs not about the attendance it is about the guys who are at the stadium but keep quiet...

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  5. #213
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    In my opinion this starts from the manager. Bruce blaming everyone and not taking responsibility all the way to some of what Brandon does and now to this.

    The manager does not want questioned and he shields his players from accountability by being a "players manager."

    It's incredible that Ludwick would say a word at this point.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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  7. #214
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    In my opinion this starts from the manager.
    yeah and itīs dustyīs fault again...

    do you know what dusty said to bp after his comments? do you know what he said to bruce (wasnīt a big deal) or to ludwick (isnīt a big deal)

    no you donīt.. he didnīt say something negative about the comments in public but you donīt know what he said to them face to face...

  8. #215
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by tomnuetten View Post
    yeah and itīs dustyīs fault again...

    do you know what dusty said to bp after his comments? do you know what he said to bruce (wasnīt a big deal) or to ludwick (isnīt a big deal)

    no you donīt.. he didnīt say something negative about the comments in public but you donīt know what he said to them face to face...
    I can assume he told them to deflect responsibility like he always does.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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  10. #216
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Some cities have more densely populated downtowns for the do-something-after-work crowd, and more densely populated nearby suburbs for the drive-in-for-a-game-make-it-back-before-midnight crowd. You aren't going to get the Reds fans from Lexington, Columbus, Huntington, Charleston, Marietta, Athens on a weeknight.

    There are a lot of empty hillsides between Reds fans. Yet some cities have nothing but fish in half their territory. So geography is only part of the story.

    There's a momentum of coolness that builds attendance. Get to the postseason a couple times and it becomes a cool thing to be a part of. Except when you get humiliated one year, out of it the next, and collapse in the next. There's no momentum yet. The Reds spent most of this season in third, never really getting much closer than about 3 games out. If they had built on that run against the Cards and Dodgers and taken the top spot in the pennant race for a moment, the place would be rocking. Instead, they fumbled around against the Cubs and Brewers.

    It's not as depressing as that all sounds. It's really just about momentum -- building the interest to another level.

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  12. #217
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Again, another good point but a lot of cities are in this boat as well. And that's not a problem the Reds - or any other team - can fix just by themselves. The Reds have to figure out ways to draw more people despite those issues. That series with the Dodgers only drew 108K and change despite the BRM being there, despite one of the most exciting young players in baseball coming in, despite perfect weather, despite it being the 1st place ancient rival Dodgers, despite the Reds taking 3 of 4 from StL. I was at that Saturday game. If there were 40K there, there were about 7K disguised as empty seats. There were blocks of seats all around me that were empty and the same goes for all around the stadium.
    There's really nothing more the team can do, as far as I can see, short of cutting ticket prices drastically.

    The Reds are one of the most fan-friendly teams in all of baseball. They'll literally let you walk out of the stadium, mid-game, and buy a sandwich at Jimmy Johns if you'd rather do that then spend money on concessions in the ballpark. They run ticket deals constantly that allow you get cheaper seats to games. The staff at games will, for the most part, bend over backwards to make sure you have a great time.

    Oh, and on top of that, they've got one of the better teams in baseball and they win a ton at home.

    Seriously, what more does the team have to do to get people to show up? Personally call every fan in the tri-state area and ask them nicely to drive down for a game?

    At this point, my only takeaway from all this is that Reds fans are just some combination of cheap and lazy. The games are on TV every night, doing a great number in the ratings, and it's easier to sit at home and watch on your couch than it is to go down to the ballpark. It's cheaper to have a beer from your fridge and cook dinner for your kids at home than it is to go to a ballgame. The amount of planning required to make a couple sandwiches (to avoid concession costs) is just too much for Joe Redsfan to handle.

    We should all stop making excuses. It's insulting to the collective intelligence.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

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  14. #218
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by tomnuetten View Post
    itīs not about the attendance it is about the guys who are at the stadium but keep quiet...
    That's right. So is it the fans not cheering that make the Reds play bad or is the Reds playing bad that keeps the fans from cheering? If the fans come out and cheer their heads off and the Reds still play poorly what excuse will the players use then?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  15. #219
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I agree. I wasn't sure that related to the present discussion but thought I would flip it in there.

    My possible link was...

    If a wide majority of fans can't take the time to appreciate Votto for what he is, how can we expect them to turn out on a school night at the park. I think for many the Reds are just background noise duing their daily routines (literally a TV on in the background). That's not a horrible thing, it just is what it is. I know the reality and I certainly am not upset the Reds don't draw 30k on a Sept school night.
    I'm not defending the Phillips vs Votto MVP poll.
    But think about it.
    For the first half of the season, Phllips arguably was the MVP. He got a ton of key hits to drive in big runs. Those are big moments that people remember.
    Sure, people walking in front of him set up those RBIs, but people remember the big hit.

    The other point is that Votto is getting a huge paycheck. Most people are expecting MVP numbers out of him. Leading the league in OBP is great, but as I said on another thread, Votto isn't exactly the most exciting hitter on
    team. He's awesome, but there's not this big sense of anticipation when he comes to the plate, because he often takes until the count is 2-2, then tries to poke a single or get a walk.. He's excellent at it, and very valuable, but it's just not as exciting.

    Plus, it's just a phone poll.. I don't think we should take it too seriously. I think most fans love Joey. Phllips is just more exciting (especially when defense is factored in) and more lovable, and more of a personality. Votes are often popularity contests...
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  17. #220
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    Fans are hesitant to believe in the team since last years heartbreak at home. Win a playoff series and I'd guess this changes.
    I just don't get this logic. To me, this isn't the mark of a true fan.

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  19. #221
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    It's pretty obvious that guys like Doc and C Trent make their living by being extremely negative about the team and trying to drum up faux controversy. Why players talk to either of them, I still don't know.

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  21. #222
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    That's right. So is it the fans not cheering that make the Reds play bad or is the Reds playing bad that keeps the fans from cheering? If the fans come out and cheer their heads off and the Reds still play poorly what excuse will the players use then?
    as I mentioned, Iīm used to a totally different fandom culture (german soccer) and as a fan I can only criticize the team for their poor performance if I gave my best as fan to support the team...

    cheering with a 3-0 lead is not difficult and not very important.. cheering to "help" the team if it is a close game or the team is behind is in my opinion more important...

    but there is a lot of criticism about the manager, votto (media and some fans aswell) , bruce (because of his kīs) etc. but if the fans get a little criticism some of them overreact big time

  22. #223
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    You may be right about that. Maybe if Votto stood and posed and flipped the bat after his walks ...
    I just want to make it clear that Votto is awesome.

    Still, one of the Mets games, two at bats, he just took three called strikes (IIRC).. I understand his strategy and it generally works, but it's deflating when he Ks without even swinging once. And it's unexciting.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  23. #224
    "A Rose by Any Other. . " RedRoser's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    What alwaysred and buckeyeredleg said.

    and chipr and redread. . .

  24. #225
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The "kids are back in school" reasoning is lame -- no kid was ever killed from staying up on one or two school nights past 8 or 9 PM. I went to plenty of school night games as a child. The idea that your kid will explode or turn into a juvenile delinquent if he's out after sundown during the school year is alarmingly silly to me.
    .
    It is a valid excuse.
    I have four kids. Even if I lived in Cincy, it would be almost impossible to see a Reds game on a weekday when school is in session.
    During school, we have scouts, piano lessons, band, religious education classes, etc, etc..
    My kids also need help with homework. It's often 9-10 pm by the time extra-ciriculular activities and homework is all done.

    I think this is the norm for parents nowdays.
    We try to squeeze a few innings of watching the Reds on TV, but if we went to a weeknight game, it means homework is not done and extraciricular activities are missed.. That stuff is more important than seeing the Reds play live.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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