"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Whatever metrics you decide, it just has to be something we can check -- such as " average X people to a weekday game". It doesn't even have to be realistic.. but something concrete. Saying "the Reds don't control the pulse of the town" when you are on the opposite coast really isn't fair. (How can you even know or measure this now?)
Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
I think its' a moving target for sure, yes teams climb up and slide down in attendance, some quicker than others. I suppose if the baseball announcers didn't talk about high school football during the pennant race, if ether were some sell outs late in the season or early in the season that didn't involve give aways would be a good start. As for the "pulse of the town" I do have relatives and friends back there and I get a lot of the vibe from them, so as I previously said it could be my vantage point that is incorrect.
That said this is the second year in a row that a player has said something, so it's creeping into the clubhouse and that's somewhat troubling.
Yes the town is smaller, regional and has a losing past.
I get that.
Sometimes change is less noticeable from from far away yes, but I still hear a lot of when will I get mine from the fanbase and while that's understandably a reality I also sense a lot of disdain for anyone who thinks it could be a lot better
But just because a team is talented doesn't make it likable. Many successful teams (across sports) are unlikable and many teams with moderate success are a thrill to watch. People want to see players play hard, have a positive personality, and have a zest for the game. Players that fit this description - Rose, Freel, Gomes, etc. - become particularly popular in Cincinnati, a town that values strong work ethic over glitz and flash.
I actually happen to believe that most of the players are good guys and are playing hard. But I also fully understand, after having watched probably 95% of the innings this team has played this year, why fans would be left with the feeling that this team comes and goes mentally and emotionally. Indeed in some series and games in just the last month - @Milwaukee, vs. CHC, vs. NYM - the team has seemed to be sleepwalking. Was that actually the case? I kinda doubt it. Did it appear that way? Absolutely.
Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor;2978347
Seriously, what more does the team have to do to get people to show up?
I have been brought to tears more than once by this time this year. and sometimes it really makes me mad at myself for getting so emotionally invested in something I have zero control over, but I am. And that won't change no matter how many times I get frustrated and say "No more! Eff this team, I'm done!, etc, etc " I am always back the next day, the next week, the next season.
I can't help but hope this team becomes the wild card butt kicker this year, but logically I don't think it will happen. But I do hope.
Hey Ryan, why don't you get the bench UP, YELLING, SCREAMING, and CHEERING? A bunch of Zombies 95% of the time.
There is a Fangraphs graph of fan effects! And it turns Jay Bruce into Mike Trout!
I don't know, a lot of assumptions in there. But we can do this, fans! We can do this!
Why does a fan have to fit a certain mold? A fan gets to be what a fan wants to be. There are no expectations of a fan. A fan can be 100% positive or negative or somewhere in the middle. Big deal. I've been a fan of the same teams in each of the sports my entire sporting life. I get to do, say, feel and act the way I want to about the teams for which I root.
I have very little use for a player calling out fans, or calling fans out...or plugging fans in for that matter. The only thing players should ever do with regards to fans is be gracious, say 'thank you' for spending time and money to watch them play....and then play your game as hard as you can and to the best of your ability.
You know, you can always find fault with most anything if you fry it hard enough with a magnifying glass. I think sometimes people get a little too wrapped up in the give and take and ups and downs of a baseball season and let themselves get too affected by the negatives. Pretty soon, they are just looking for ways to get pissed off. I really don't understand that. Life is too short to expend so much energy in something so negative.
I think Cincinnati crowds are more like how parks were 20-30-40 years ago. People used to sit and watch the game. When something good happened, they cheered. If something bad happened, they moaned and if it was bad enough, they booed. But I don't think crowds used to be as hyper and easily distracted and wanting of constant stimulation as they are now.
I love baseball. I love the Reds. Am I a somewhat conservative guy? Sure I am. Do I go to the ballpark and make a spectacle of myself? No. I can discern the game pretty well now. I can gauge the ebb and flow. I know when a game is in its doldrums and I can tell when the game is in balance. I'll get cranked up then when it matters. But I don't dye my hair red and put it in cornrows or wear beads or giant cowboy hat or hold up a sign for ESPN. I cheer for the team and the game the way I want to. And I think its just fine.
Thank God one of them cares about winning.
I start with that to support the point that he's not a kid. And thus that he should know better than to make comments about his own fans of a disparaging nature that come across like excuses. His paycheck compensates him for maximum effort. Vocal butts in seats are gravy. Exhibit A: Cleveland. Exhibit B: Tampa Bay.
That said, I don't think this matters so much. I personally don't so much care what Ludwick said driven by whatever mood he was in. He gets paid well to do a job and should do it as well as he can. I understand he's not at 100% and I believe he's trying his best so I don't bash him here for his flagging power/BA. Agree he's still better than X, Soto, Heisey, etc. End of story for me on Luddy.
Finally, I was in PIttsburgh last weekend for the games Saturday and Sunday. Saturday, the Pitt fans were boisterous and engaged but no differnt from what I remember at GABP last year when we clinched the division. At last Sunday's game at PNC, we stayed 'till well after the 9th inning/game ended. I was on my feet clapping throughout and occasionally shouting though less as the game went on out of respect to the locals. The two of us were the only Reds fans in my entire section (field level behind 3B) and two of maybe a dozen total along that 3B-HP line. By the top of the 9th, as we put up the 11th run, the stadium emptied out to maybe 25% full at best. Only then was it apparent that there were some Reds fans there; maybe a few hundred but mostly the sections around the Reds dugout on the 1B side along with the upper sections. We all stayed. We all cheered. They won big. Bucs fans: boisterous Saturday. Graveyard Sunday. No surprises there. No different from GABP.
Huge 'whatever' for me on all this stuff with Ludwick. Love Luddy. Love the team. They need to just focus on doing what they can and winning on Tuesday. Show their talent with the Win. Demonstrate the professionalism since, well, they are paid well. I live in DC. I make it to 3-5 games at GABP each year. I see maybe 7 more in DC, PHL, NY or Pitt. Maybe I'm a bad fan but I don't think so.
Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats