Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

[Bob Sheed]

Bravo. Continue to take pot shots at a player in a thread where people are up in arms because Ludwick took shots at the fans.

Epic double standard. Oh but wait, Ludwick gets paid more than you do and you pay to go watch him play. Clearly, this means he is held to a higher standard than you are. Bravo.

What Ludwick said, reminds me of the Diamondbacks being mad that the Dodgers were celebrating in their kiddie pool.

You know what? If Ludwick doesn't like fans' reaction to subpar, lethargic play, then umm...maybe he shouldn't sleepwalk through games.

And as far as holding him to a higher standard? Darn right. If I shell out 50 bucks for a movie, and Ishtar shows up on the screen...I'm throwing popcorn.

[Bob Sheed]

You root for the team through the bad times and the good..

You mean like "zero playoff series wins in the past 18 years"? THOSE bad times?

During these aforementioned past 18 years, the Reds have been more like the Bengals than, well, the Bengals. Yet this season set a new attendance record at GABP.

But that's not enough for Ludwick. The fans aren't cheering loud enough for Ryan, and it's effecting his ability to get "pumped up."

You know what effects MY ability to get pumped up? Listening to some dude who hurt himself sliding into a base, then gets healthy, then comes in and stinks it up, then criticizes the fanbase for not enough rah-rahs.

How bout' win a flippin playoff series, then we can talk fan participation.

[Homer Bailey]

You mean like "zero playoff series wins in the past 18 years"? THOSE bad times?

During these aforementioned past 18 years, the Reds have been more like the Bengals than, well, the Bengals. Yet this season set a new attendance record at GABP.

But that's not enough for Ludwick. The fans aren't cheering loud enough for Ryan, and it's effecting his ability to get "pumped up."

You know what effects MY ability to get pumped up? Listening to some dude who hurt himself sliding into a base, then gets healthy, then comes in and stinks it up, then criticizes the fanbase for not enough rah-rahs.

How bout' win a flippin playoff series, then we can talk fan participation.

Ok, so you've confirmed you're the exact "fan" I'm referring to. Apologies to jhu1321!

[reds44]

Saying Ludwick or anybody else is "sleepwalking" thru games has no facts to back them up.

Ludwick is a 35 year old who just spent the better part of 4 months working his ass off to get back on the field in order to help the Reds win. Has he been good? No. Is it because he's "lethargic" or sleepwalking?" No.

For the fat dude sitting in section 128 drinking a beer to question a players "effort" on the field because he paid $25 for a ticket and $8 for a beer is hilarious to me. These guys are professionals, it's their job. They do their jobs better than millions and millions of people who wish they had the ability to do their job. 99% of the time, effort isn't the problem. Baseball is hard.

[Bob Sheed]

Ok, so you've confirmed you're the exact "fan" I'm referring to. Apologies to jhu1321!

Yep. Unlike you, if the Reds lay another egg on Tuesday, and then blame the fans... I'm not high-fiving them for a job well done.

I've been to many many games over the past 18 years. I cheer when they do well, and I am quiet, or I leave, when they don't. I walked out of a rainy Opening Day that Harang was stinking up. I do the same with the Bengals. If they want to do well, great! Go Home Team! But if they want to Bungle it up, kick the ball around, and get owned by a AAA pitcher, then honestly, I have better things to do with my time.

Yes that makes me a fair-weather fan. At this point in my life, time is too precious to be anything otherwise.

[reds44]

Yep. Unlike you, if the Reds lay another egg on Tuesday, and then blame the fans... I'm not high-fiving them for a job well done.

I've been to many many games over the past 18 years. I cheer when they do well, and I am quiet, or I leave, when they don't. I walked out of a rainy Opening Day that Harang was stinking up. I do the same with the Bengals. If they want to do well, great! Go Home Team! But if they want to Bungle it up, kick the ball around, and get owned by a AAA pitcher, then honestly, I have better things to do with my time.

Yes that makes me a fair-weather fan. At this point in my life, time is too precious to be anything otherwise.

Then why are you all offended when a player calls you out?

[Bob Sheed]

I used to be like many here. From 2001-2009 the Reds never won more than 80 games. And I sat through many a snooze-fest back then because I thought it made me a better fan.

Accepting mediocrity does not make you a better fan. Maybe to Bob's pocketbook, or to Ludwick's sense of Rah-Rah it does. At some point in life though, you realize: Life is short. If the home team is laying an egg, go enjoy life somewhere else.

[Bob Sheed]

Then why are you all offended when a player calls you out?

I'm not. It reaffirms my belief that Ludwick is about as out-of-touch as Georg Bush's 25 dollar loaf of bread, but it doesn't offend me.

Ludwick's comments make me want to spend my money elsewhere, I'll give you that. But winning would make that sentiment go away more than anything else.

I usually try to make at least a handful of games every season. Ludwick's comments don't make me want to buy more tickets, I'll put it that way.

It's a different world we live in. Players follow the mighty dollar from team to team, but expect blind loyalty from fans, regardless of on-field performance.

Nope.

[traderumor]

Yep. Unlike you, if the Reds lay another egg on Tuesday, and then blame the fans... I'm not high-fiving them for a job well done.

I've been to many many games over the past 18 years. I cheer when they do well, and I am quiet, or I leave, when they don't. I walked out of a rainy Opening Day that Harang was stinking up. I do the same with the Bengals. If they want to do well, great! Go Home Team! But if they want to Bungle it up, kick the ball around, and get owned by a AAA pitcher, then honestly, I have better things to do with my time.

Yes that makes me a fair-weather fan. At this point in my life, time is too precious to be anything otherwise.

Yet the money you spent on the ticket spends just the same. Some of us get fewer opportunities to go see a game live and don't get people who complain when things don't go their way at a game they attend when they get to do so more often. Sounds kind of like a self-centered person that thinks the entire purpose of the event is for their personal enjoyment.

[muethibp]

Saying Ludwick or anybody else is "sleepwalking" thru games has no facts to back them up.

Ludwick is a 35 year old who just spent the better part of 4 months working his ass off to get back on the field in order to help the Reds win. Has he been good? No. Is it because he's "lethargic" or sleepwalking?" No.

For the fat dude sitting in section 128 drinking a beer to question a players "effort" on the field because he paid $25 for a ticket and $8 for a beer is hilarious to me. These guys are professionals, it's their job. They do their jobs better than millions and millions of people who wish they had the ability to do their job. 99% of the time, effort isn't the problem. Baseball is hard.

So there's just no distinction between players in the area of focus, devotion, effort, preparation, etc? Nothing? Fans are incapable of perceiving the difference between Scott Rolen and Adam Dunn? Fans can't see that Pablo Sandoval is fatter and slower and not as good? Fans can't perceive that Latos checked out of some games last year? Fans couldn't see that Bailey used to be hard-headed to the point of affecting the game?

Many of us have spent hundreds of hours observing these players both on television and in person. I think that's more than enough time to draw conclusions about the focus, effort, and preparation of players, both relative to others in the league and relative to past players. And, based on that, I can't be critical if someone wants to charge some of these Reds with inconsistent focus.

[westofyou]

Veruca Sallt would be proud

[Bob Sheed]

Sounds kind of like a self-centered person that thinks the entire purpose of the event is for their personal enjoyment.

The "entire purpose" of the event depends on the individual. Has nothing to do with being self-centered.

For Bob, the purpose is to make money, and to a MUCH lesser degree, to win.

For me? You hit the nail squarely on the head there. The entire purpose of the event is for my personal enjoyment.

For some fans though, sadly enough, their sense of purpose for the event is tied to "how the players feel" and things of that nature. That's fine. But in my opinion, it's the last of these 3 scenarios that is the most misguided.

[dougdirt]

So there's just no distinction between players in the area of focus, devotion, effort, preparation, etc? Nothing? Fans are incapable of perceiving the difference between Scott Rolen and Adam Dunn? Fans can't see that Pablo Sandoval is fatter and slower and not as good? Fans can't perceive that Latos checked out of some games last year? Fans couldn't see that Bailey used to be hard-headed to the point of affecting the game?

Many of us have spent hundreds of hours observing these players both on television and in person. I think that's more than enough time to draw conclusions about the focus, effort, and preparation of players, both relative to others in the league and relative to past players. And, based on that, I can't be critical if someone wants to charge some of these Reds with inconsistent focus.

How many times have you gone to GABP/Away stadium or had the chance to see it on TV what the guys are doing between 2pm when they get to the stadium and 6pm when the gates open/tv show covering stuff starts? My guess is, well, never. You don't have a clue how much preparation or lack there of a single player is putting in. A guy is fat so he isn't preparing enough? Prince Fielder is a pretty fat guy. So is CC Sabathia. They seem to have prepared awfully well in their careers.

I would also love to know about the focusing aspect and how you can determine it.

[RedsBaron]

I'm not. It reaffirms my belief that Ludwick is about as out-of-touch as Georg Bush's 25 dollar loaf of bread, but it doesn't offend me.

Neither Bush Sr. nor Bush the younger ever said that.

[RedsBaron]

How many times have you gone to GABP/Away stadium or had the chance to see it on TV what the guys are doing between 2pm when they get to the stadium and 6pm when the gates open/tv show covering stuff starts? My guess is, well, never. You don't have a clue how much preparation or lack there of a single player is putting in. A guy is fat so he isn't preparing enough? Prince Fielder is a pretty fat guy. So is CC Sabathia. They seem to have prepared awfully well in their careers.

I would also love to know about the focusing aspect and how you can determine it.

My guess is the average fan knows more about Ryan Ludwick than Ludwick knows about the average fan, yet that didn't stop Ludwick from passing judgment upon the fans, so I guess turnabout is only fair.