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Thread: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

  1. #46
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I don't think too many of us here would have complained if Jocketty had added Byrd and Morneau.

    But you have to give the Pittsburgh GM credit. He didn't sit on his can. He improved his team.
    I said all along Morneau was not a good addition for Pittsburgh and would have been useless for Cincinnati. Morneau was NOT an improvement, especially since they were bringing him over to be an everyday starter. His numbers in Minnesota this year were actually slightly worse than Pittsburgh's aggregate first base production they were already getting.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #47
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I said all along Morneau was not a good addition for Pittsburgh and would have been useless for Cincinnati. Morneau was NOT an improvement, especially since they were bringing him over to be an everyday starter. His numbers in Minnesota this year were actually slightly worse than Pittsburgh's aggregate first base production they were already getting.
    That's not really the point though, it's that they went out and tried to improve the team. Some moves work, some don't. Bottom line is Pittsburgh is a better team now. Morneau isn't back to his all star form but he is still productive, and their bench is really solid now compared to the Reds.

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  5. #48
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by davereds24 View Post
    That's not really the point though, it's that they went out and tried to improve the team. Some moves work, some don't. Bottom line is Pittsburgh is a better team now. Morneau isn't back to his all star form but he is still productive, and their bench is really solid now compared to the Reds.
    If someone clearly isn't an improvement, why should they get credit for "trying?"

    The Reds were "trying" to improve when they signed Wily Taveras, but everyone knew he wasn't going to improve the club much, if at all.

    Morneau absolutely has not been productive. He had a .741 OPS with Minnesota and has a .683 OPS with Pittsburgh. Morneau was a name acquisition only.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  7. #49
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    If someone clearly isn't an improvement, why should they get credit for "trying?"

    The Reds were "trying" to improve when they signed Wily Taveras, but everyone knew he wasn't going to improve the club much, if at all.

    Morneau absolutely has not been productive. He had a .741 OPS with Minnesota and has a .683 OPS with Pittsburgh. Morneau was a name acquisition only.
    He'd improve the Reds bench to be sure. Not to mention Byrd. It's been a black hole all year and will only be more exposed as the playoffs begin.

  8. #50
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    He'd improve the Reds bench to be sure. Not to mention Byrd. It's been a black hole all year and will only be more exposed as the playoffs begin.
    But, again, what would the Reds needed to give up to get Byrd? Maybe the Mets didn't like anything the Reds had to offer. Jocketty keeps things very close to the vest, so it's very possible he did look into Byrd and neither team could come up with a deal.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  9. #51
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    But, again, what would the Reds needed to give up to get Byrd? Maybe the Mets didn't like anything the Reds had to offer. Jocketty keeps things very close to the vest, so it's very possible he did look into Byrd and neither team could come up with a deal.
    True, but he was a waiver claim deal for the pirates. All Walt had to do was claim him, and if the mets didn't like the trade options, he'd have been pulled back and never have went to Pittsburgh.

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  11. #52
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    But, again, what would the Reds needed to give up to get Byrd? Maybe the Mets didn't like anything the Reds had to offer. Jocketty keeps things very close to the vest, so it's very possible he did look into Byrd and neither team could come up with a deal.
    They still could have kept the Pirates from acquiringhim by maki ng a wire claim. That was a mistake and hopefully it doesn't come back to haunt us.

  12. #53
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    It's one game, anything can happen, stats really don't mean much in one game. The wisest move is to start your best players and let the chips fall where they may.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #54
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    I suspect that Jocketty does not play the Jim Bowden game of claiming players to block them from going to another club. My guess is that he only claims players if he actually wants to acquire them. Now you can argue that claiming Byrd would have improved the Reds (and I would likely agree with you--Byrd was a potential target of mine back in June), but I'm not going to barbeque Jocketty because he didn't play sleazeball politics like Jimbo used to.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  14. #55
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Jocketty has a hell of a track record, but I was surprised he didn't make a move to upgrade at LF... or even shortstop. You don't have pitching staffs this good very often. A top notch pitching staff plus Choo/Votto seems like something you could build around. Didn't happen. He must have thought that Ludwick would be just as good as anything he could get in the trade market. That was incorrect.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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  16. #56
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Dusty I'm sure will let it ride and see if they come out of it on the road, which is something they've done all season after a low point/draught.

    Not much else you can hope for.
    Last edited by CrackerJack; 09-29-2013 at 02:48 AM.

  17. #57
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Big Klu..."sleazeball politics" with waiver wire claims? Claiming guys to block competitors from getting them post trade-deadline is SOP...

  18. #58
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Frankly, starting Hamilton instead of Choo or Ludwick is the craziest idea I have ever heard.
    Stick around here longer, you will hear crazier ideas almost every week. ex. there was this one summer I was pushing Alex Gonzalez to be the lead off guy.

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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    If someone clearly isn't an improvement, why should they get credit for "trying?"

    The Reds were "trying" to improve when they signed Wily Taveras, but everyone knew he wasn't going to improve the club much, if at all.

    Morneau absolutely has not been productive. He had a .741 OPS with Minnesota and has a .683 OPS with Pittsburgh. Morneau was a name acquisition only.
    Morneau has a .370 OBP. He certainly hasn't turned it around like they had hoped with a change of scenery, but he hasn't been a flop either. When you make two moves and one works out great and the other is getting you a .370 OBP you have improved your team. Their lineup and their bench is better now than it was a couple months ago.

  20. #60
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Reds need to shake things up in the WC game.

    Quote Originally Posted by davereds24 View Post
    Morneau has a .370 OBP. He certainly hasn't turned it around like they had hoped with a change of scenery, but he hasn't been a flop either. When you make two moves and one works out great and the other is getting you a .370 OBP you have improved your team. Their lineup and their bench is better now than it was a couple months ago.
    He didn't improve the team, though. A .311 wOBA, for a premium position, is really poor. The MLB average for first basemen this year is .333. To give perspective, Casey Kotchman's career wOBA was .313.

    Ignore the name "Morneau" for a moment and imagine the Pirates trading for Casey Kotchman and try to tell me that is an upgrade.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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