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Thread: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

  1. #16
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I could not care less about how hard someone runs out on a stinking ground ball unless they are a truly fast player where it actually could make a difference. On this team, that means Billy Hamilton and only Billy Hamilton.

    Why bother to run at all then?

    By your rationale, if I player hits a ground ball and sees the fielder glove it, he should just stop immediately and head back to the dugout.

    Yeah that sounds like a really positive change to the game if implemented.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

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    Falcon7 (09-30-2013), remdog (09-30-2013)

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  4. #17
    Member 1940757690's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    I won't attack anyone upthread or even strongly disagree as I will usually on other topics.

    Here, I'll just offer a simple point.

    I'm quite certain that, in life as much in baseball, effort matters. It's a critically important and often variably present thing. Just like chemistry. On a baseball team, it's as important at the player level as it is for the team in aggregate.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  5. #18
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I wouldn't be too dismissive of that.

    Pete Rose didn't have very good speed, obviously. However, as a percentage of non-hits by fielders, he reached on an error 2.8% of the time in his career. The league average during the 70s was 1.6%. That means he was reaching base close to double that of the league average. Furthermore, for the productive two thirds of his career he was an everyday player, his BABIP was around .330, which likely means he was beating out some infield hits.

    Those extra errors and infield hits can add up over the course of a season. The mere fact you're running every play out can sometimes cause fielders to rush a throw when they otherwise wouldn't. Rose did that, which is a lot of the reason he reached on those extra errors.
    I am not going to worry over 4-6 times he reached base on errors a season. Billy Hamilton reached on an error 6 times in Louisville this year and one of those was on a dropped pop up to shortstop. Errors aren't the result of someone running fast to first base.

    As for his BABIP, it was probably because he was a switch hitter who used the entire field, not because he ran super duper hard to first base. I am sure he had some infield hits, but it wasn't carrying his BABIP.

  6. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon7 View Post
    So a slow or average speed guy could never beat out a ground ball? That is just flat Stupid!
    I guess they should just walk back to the dougout after hitting an infield grounder...

    Always have an excuse for everything, don't you.
    Never?

    I didn't say that. But even the fastest guys in baseball hit .150 on balls to infielders. Devin Mesoraco runs harder than anyone on the team. But he isn't fast. He hit .094 on balls on the infield. He reached on a throwing error once. Brandon Phillips hardly ever runs hard to first base. He hit .050 on balls to the infield, but he reached on errors 6 times.

    Running hard isn't the reason guys are making errors with the exception of guys with plus speed.

    Running hard may result in an extra 1-3 hits per season. I don't think 1-3 singles a year is worth getting bent out of shape over.

  7. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Why bother to run at all then?

    By your rationale, if I player hits a ground ball and sees the fielder glove it, he should just stop immediately and head back to the dugout.

    Yeah that sounds like a really positive change to the game if implemented.
    You bother to run because if there is an error, you still need to get to the bag.

  8. #21
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not going to worry over 4-6 times he reached base on errors a season. Billy Hamilton reached on an error 6 times in Louisville this year and one of those was on a dropped pop up to shortstop. Errors aren't the result of someone running fast to first base.

    As for his BABIP, it was probably because he was a switch hitter who used the entire field, not because he ran super duper hard to first base. I am sure he had some infield hits, but it wasn't carrying his BABIP.
    Any infielder will tell you that on a close play, a fast runner or someone who is running hard down the line will make you try to make a play on the ball and sometimes creates a throwing error by rushing the throw.

    I absolutely beg to differ that errors aren't the result of someone running hard to first base. They aren't always, but sometimes they are.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  10. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Any infielder will tell you that on a close play, a fast runner or someone who is running hard down the line will make you try to make a play on the ball and sometimes creates a throwing error by rushing the throw.

    I absolutely beg to differ that errors aren't the result of someone running hard to first base. They aren't always, but sometimes they are.
    We are talking about a very, very small percentage of plays. It matters, but barely. It isn't something that I am going to really be worried about.

    Again, no one on this team runs harder to first than Mesoraco. He reached base on one error this year by an infielder. Brandon Phillips hardly ever runs to first base. He reached on an error to an infielder six times. I just don't buy that in 90% of the cases it matters and in the 10% that it does, it is because there is a plus runner that is running and it actually warrants rushing the play.

  11. #23
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    So hustling is overrated, really not necessary, might get you on base a few extra times and maybe a couple extra wins a season. Big fricken deal... right?
    Your wrong Doug, and deep down you know it. But are you man enough to admit it?

  12. #24
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    Re: An open letter to the 2013 Reds

    I wonder if anyone in the reds orginization will even read this? Very accurate and true assessment. Kinda sad if you think abou it... Last year with the, well, you know what happened and they are still not hungry? What else besides not getting to playoffs in ages will make you play with more heart and energy? Is this an indication of senior management (walt, owner, etc) or is this a player character issue?


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