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Thread: Urgency, or the lack thereof

  1. #16
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    We've scored 9 runs in the 5 games since we've last played Pittsburgh. I'm not really concerned about Dusty's misuse (allegedly) of the bullpen right now.
    No one disputes the fact that the offense is in a huge funk. But leaving Arroyo out there to serve up one long ball after the other didn't help. Especially if you think the team can't score beyond a certain number of runs in the first place.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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  4. #17
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I want to complain about this. Yes. Our offense didn't get the job done. But our manager didn't get his done either. Here is the difference, no one at all was actively trying to prevent Dusty Baker from making his choice. The Pirates pitching staff and defense were actively trying to stop the Reds offense from getting their job done.

    Dusty going to the bullpen, with 2 games left in the season with expanded rosters, is a whole lot easier to decide to do than it is to just choose to get hits at will. THAT is why I am choosing to complain about this. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.
    What does expanded rosters have to do with this? A sense of urgency would mean you want to bring in the guys we'll use for the playoffs anyway and not the Zach Dukes of the world to 'play with urgency.'

    Hoover pitched Friday and Saturday.
    Marshall pitched yesterday.
    Simon pitched Friday.
    Parra pitched yesterday.
    Lecure pitched yesterday.
    Chapman hasn't pitched since the Mets series.

    I would consider those our 'main' guys. So let's say we stop the bleeding and win yesterday. We play today and Cueto has a short outing again and we have to use our bullpen again. Now you're looking at using some of those guys for extended innings and essentially using them just to determine whether or not we play in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati on Tuesday.

    Maybe it's just me, but I'm less concerned about location of game rather than how we play on Tuesday.

  5. #18
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    No one disputes the fact that the offense is in a huge funk. But leaving Arroyo out there to serve up one long ball after the other didn't help. Especially if you think the team can't score beyond a certain number of runs in the first place.
    Fine. But if we can't score, why does it matter who pitches?

  6. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    What does expanded rosters have to do with this? A sense of urgency would mean you want to bring in the guys we'll use for the playoffs anyway and not the Zach Dukes of the world to 'play with urgency.'

    Hoover pitched Friday and Saturday.
    Marshall pitched yesterday.
    Simon pitched Friday.
    Parra pitched yesterday.
    Lecure pitched yesterday.
    Chapman hasn't pitched since the Mets series.

    I would consider those our 'main' guys. So let's say we stop the bleeding and win yesterday. We play today and Cueto has a short outing again and we have to use our bullpen again. Now you're looking at using some of those guys for extended innings and essentially using them just to determine whether or not we play in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati on Tuesday.

    Maybe it's just me, but I'm less concerned about location of game rather than how we play on Tuesday.
    Sunday doesn't matter unless you win Saturday. The game was managed like neither game mattered.

    As for what expanded rosters have to do with it..... you have more options to use than normal. A tired bullpen isn't an excuse for leaving a pitching in there who has given up 4 home runs in 4 innings.

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  8. #20
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It probably meant an extra $2M in ticket sales.

    Why do you need a long man? LeCure, Chapman, Hoover, Marshall and any other reliever on the roster all get 1 inning and you finish out the game. This isn't May.
    The quote was they wanted to Arroyo through 5 innings. That means they felt they had 4innings of reliable relief work in the pen, but no more. Probably Marshall, Hoover, LeCure and Chapman. Taking Arroyo out before he finishes means pitching Ondrusek or Parra, or Duke or Christiani or Partch or Reynolds... none good options in a tight game.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The quote was they wanted to Arroyo through 5 innings. That means they felt they had 4innings of reliable relief work in the pen, but no more. Probably Marshall, Hoover, LeCure and Chapman. Taking Arroyo out before he finishes means pitching Ondrusek or Parra, or Duke or Christiani or Partch or Reynolds... none good options in a tight game.
    Again, Arroyo had been a batting tee for 4 innings. Good options or not, they were probably better options than Arroyo. Especially Parra, who has been very good this year.

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  11. #22
    Member Moosie52's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    This team won 90 games this year without really trying, or so it seems. Dusty hasn't been any better at his job than the position players have been at theirs. They are uninspiring and self-satisfied. This is no way to go into a playoff game.

  12. #23
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Fine. But if we can't score, why does it matter who pitches?
    Why does it matter who pitches? You know that game in Pittsburgh you're going to watch on Tuesday? They're playing in that game because of who has pitched this year.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  13. #24
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Again, Arroyo had been a batting tee for 4 innings. Good options or not, they were probably better options than Arroyo. Especially Parra, who has been very good this year.
    I couldn't figure out why Ondrusek was used, either.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  14. #25
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    I couldn't figure out why Ondrusek was used, either.
    I never can figure out why Ondrusek is ever used.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  16. #26
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I never can figure out why Ondrusek is ever used.
    lol touche
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  17. #27
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    The word that keeps coming to me, to describe this team over the last 2 months is...

    Passive.

    This team just seems very passive to me. It's so laid back. They never panic, which is a good thing. Their confidence is so quiet. I think it comes straight from the top, and it's generally a good thing. But there are times that call for more urgency, more energy, and even though BP misnamed it, more swagger.

    After how these last 2 series went, I can't believe for a second that the Reds approach the Tuesday game at PNC with confidence.

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  19. #28
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Dusty was whining about the bullpen being overworked the first week of the season. And yes, I'm serious. I remember posting about it at the time.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  20. #29
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    The word that keeps coming to me, to describe this team over the last 2 months is...

    Passive.

    This team just seems very passive to me. It's so laid back. They never panic, which is a good thing. Their confidence is so quiet. I think it comes straight from the top, and it's generally a good thing. But there are times that call for more urgency, more energy, and even though BP misnamed it, more swagger.

    After how these last 2 series went, I can't believe for a second that the Reds approach the Tuesday game at PNC with confidence.
    It's not just two months. They've been that way the entire season. A couple times a week they look like they're sleepwalking. The starting pitchers always come to play, but the position players don't.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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  22. #30
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Urgency, or the lack thereof

    Yeah.

    I've liked Dusty for quite a while, but he lost me this weekend. Urgency, intensity, the will to win, whatever you want to call it, this team ain't got it. And the Pirates had it. It was visible and discernable.

    It's not a switch that can get turned on. It's a habit. You need to play that way all the time.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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