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Thread: Moves to make to field championship team

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    Moves to make to field championship team

    We have seen during the past 4-5 seasons the Reds field a team that has been on the cusp of winning it all. Now if this were the 1st or 2nd year of that span I would not make the case I'm about to, but with this being the tail end of that window, the time for the Reds to win is now. The main players have peaked and while I'm not going so far as to say they are or will regress, they certainly are not going to get better. Therefore, if the Reds want to win the time is now. I have no idea what the money situation is and what the team is willing to spend this off season but a golden opportunity might be present with the Rockies.

    http://metsblog.com/metsblog/rockies...i-this-winter/

    Based on the article above, the Rockies could be willing to move both Gonzalez and Tulowitzki. The article goes on to say the Rockies are more interested in positional prospects rather than pitching prospects so I would put together a package of Mesoraco, Hamilton, Ervin and Travieso or Stephenson or Cingrani. The offense is just too inconsistent. A move like this gives the Reds a killer lineup 2-6. Besides losing prospects (which I could care less about when your on the verge of building a championship team) the other drawback is with all the money this move would bring in (again not sure if this is possible just a scenario) the Reds would have to let Choo walk thus leaving a void at the leadoff spot.

    I fully believe that a team with Tulowitzki/Votto/Gonzales/Phillips/Bruce and a pitching rotation with Cueto/Latos/Bailey/Leake with Chapman closing would be primed for the championship.

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Tulo scares me. He's extremely injury prone. There are always guys you can plug in for just next year and see how it works out. Like in the case of the shortstop position, why not go after someone like Brendan Ryan or on the lines of a guy like him. He has an incredible glove, if not the best. He really has to improve with the bat though for us to even get close to considering him. But I don't see Walt looking entirely past that idea. I mean cmon...Walt does like ex-Cardinals (sadly, with the exception of Scotty). I don't see why you would want to get rid of Hamilton. Yes, you could get a lot for him and he has the chance of blowing out a hammy next season. Still though, why trade him when you have barely used him in the lineup as a starter. We need to see what he can do NEXT SEASON and then go from there.

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    It's not like I want to move Hamilton and the other guys just for the sake of a trade. When its for proven top quality MLB players you have to make the move. Hamilton may be great, but he may not. He has the speed and baserunning ability and fielding, but what if he never develops the bat? No doubt there is risk with Tulo, but if we want to see a World Series with this current squad were going to have to take a chance. We can't sign guys in the open market for close to 20 million a year, but we may be able to trade for guys who make closer to 10 million a year.

    My view on prospects is that you keep them when your rebuilding and you trade them when your ready to go for the World Series. Right now were the latter thus I can justify trading away the players I mentioned for the guys who not only will help us win now, but are still in their primes.

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    marcshoe (10-04-2013)

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Votto to Toronto for Adam Lind and Jose Reyes. You will save a ton of cash to sign Choo and you have your first basemen, SS and CF back. Toronto would be more than likely interested to bring Joey back to Canada.

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Couple of thoughts, first teams don't trade players they just inked to long term deals, so any thought of trading Votto is pointless. Second any trade that involved bringing in higher quality players means higher salaries, something the Reds really don't have. Any additional monies the team has right now MUST go to pitching and getting Latos/Cueto/Bailey resigned in some combination. Lastly, I challenge that the talent needed to win isn't already here, it just needs some motiviation, better coaching and proper use.

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    CoachBombay (10-07-2013)

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    I challenge that the talent needed to win isn't already here, it just needs some motiviation, better coaching and proper use.
    I could not agree more!

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by dkamberi25 View Post
    We have seen during the past 4-5 seasons the Reds field a team that has been on the cusp of winning it all. Now if this were the 1st or 2nd year of that span I would not make the case I'm about to, but with this being the tail end of that window, the time for the Reds to win is now. The main players have peaked and while I'm not going so far as to say they are or will regress, they certainly are not going to get better. Therefore, if the Reds want to win the time is now. I have no idea what the money situation is and what the team is willing to spend this off season but a golden opportunity might be present with the Rockies.

    http://metsblog.com/metsblog/rockies...i-this-winter/

    Based on the article above, the Rockies could be willing to move both Gonzalez and Tulowitzki. The article goes on to say the Rockies are more interested in positional prospects rather than pitching prospects so I would put together a package of Mesoraco, Hamilton, Ervin and Travieso or Stephenson or Cingrani. The offense is just too inconsistent. A move like this gives the Reds a killer lineup 2-6. Besides losing prospects (which I could care less about when your on the verge of building a championship team) the other drawback is with all the money this move would bring in (again not sure if this is possible just a scenario) the Reds would have to let Choo walk thus leaving a void at the leadoff spot.

    I fully believe that a team with Tulowitzki/Votto/Gonzales/Phillips/Bruce and a pitching rotation with Cueto/Latos/Bailey/Leake with Chapman closing would be primed for the championship.
    If this is true, I'd start with Chapman plus Hamilton, then go from there. I can't imagine the impact Tulo and Cargo would have on the lineup. The Reds do have some trade chips, even if it would hurt emotionally to part with them.

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Lastly, I challenge that the talent needed to win isn't already here, it just needs some motiviation, better coaching and proper use.
    THe talent is here. but in addition to a shake up at manager, a shake up at a few positions to help the Reds stay competitive over the long term can be looked at, while improving the clubhouse.
    Pete Rose will be leaving the Montreal Expos to become player - manager for the Cincinnati Reds

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou1990 View Post
    THe talent is here. but in addition to a shake up at manager, a shake up at a few positions to help the Reds stay competitive over the long term can be looked at, while improving the clubhouse.
    Why? The talent is here, this idea to "shake things up" just to shake them up makes no sense. Also where are the monies going to come from when you add all this talent while trading away pretty cheap (money wise) players?

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Albert Einstein's definition of insanity = Doing the same thing over and over (and over) again and expecting different results.

    If they give us the same lineup and the same rotation, and the same bullpen, we should expect the same results. Its the job of the GM to look at making the team either better immediately, or in the long run, every year.

    Example 1 - I love the Bailey fire, but if he has no interest in signing long term, then he is a potential trade chip since he is beyond club control in 1 year. Can't lose him and get nothing.

    Example 2 - Chapman is under utilized. Trade him or move him to rotation. I have no faith that he can be moved to the rotation ( see definition of insanity)

    #3 - Keep Hamilton - not everyone goes, its not a fire sale. He is not to be traded. Same with Bruce.

    Obviously the GM office has a microscope on all positions and I have pretty good faith in their judgement, they have earned it, for the most part. I'd keep all the cheap, young talent, and Votto.
    Pete Rose will be leaving the Montreal Expos to become player - manager for the Cincinnati Reds

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Why? The talent is here, this idea to "shake things up" just to shake them up makes no sense. Also where are the monies going to come from when you add all this talent while trading away pretty cheap (money wise) players?
    I would never trade cheap, young talent, without a great reason. The Reds need to keep all of the cheap talent they can so that they can occasionally go after a top free agent.
    Pete Rose will be leaving the Montreal Expos to become player - manager for the Cincinnati Reds

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    PaulyOH (10-07-2013)

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou1990 View Post
    I would never trade cheap, young talent, without a great reason. The Reds need to keep all of the cheap talent they can so that they can occasionally go after a top free agent.
    If the cheap young talent is not producing well enough to get past one playoff round, what's the point of keeping it all? Isn't that the definition of insanity that you noted above?

    Keep the cheap young talent if you continue to believe it will soon emerge into above average players. Don't keep it only because it is cheap and young.

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Tulo is not cheap or "10 million a year" - he makes 16 mill in 2014, then has 4 years at $20 million starting in 2015. Then 14 and 15 million. So he is a twenty million a year player. Cargo makes 10,500,000 in 2014 then 16, 17 and 20 million. Just in 2014 - the cheapest years - they would add 26.5 million in payroll. 36 million in 2015. That's not something you adjust for by moving out a couple small fry.

    After the money hurdle - there is just no way the Rox accept that prospect package. They would have to be willing to accept a package (if they want prospects) that won't be ready til 2015 - from guys like YR, Winker, SMB, Contreras, Stephenson plus Billy Hamilton and maybe a fungible piece or two from the regular roster. I don't think it likely.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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    Reds&BuckeyeGuy (10-07-2013)

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou1990 View Post
    Albert Einstein's definition of insanity = Doing the same thing over and over (and over) again and expecting different results.

    If they give us the same lineup and the same rotation, and the same bullpen, we should expect the same results. Its the job of the GM to look at making the team either better immediately, or in the long run, every year.

    Example 1 - I love the Bailey fire, but if he has no interest in signing long term, then he is a potential trade chip since he is beyond club control in 1 year. Can't lose him and get nothing.

    Example 2 - Chapman is under utilized. Trade him or move him to rotation. I have no faith that he can be moved to the rotation ( see definition of insanity)

    #3 - Keep Hamilton - not everyone goes, its not a fire sale. He is not to be traded. Same with Bruce.

    Obviously the GM office has a microscope on all positions and I have pretty good faith in their judgement, they have earned it, for the most part. I'd keep all the cheap, young talent, and Votto.
    Have you spoken directly with Homer, cause I have not heard anything from him saying he will NOT resign or stay in cincy.

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    Re: Moves to make to field championship team

    What we need is offense. What we have is starting pitching. I say move Cueto and Bailey for some offense. And if we can sign Choo, put Bruce on the block.


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