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Thread: Dusty out as manager

  1. #1021
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Benihana (I think) floated the idea of Bailey for Jurickson Profar a while back. If the Reds could do that (and it's not outlandish to think they could), it would be awfully tempting. Dependent on other moves, that could be a sweet idea.

    Anyway, I imagine Homer's thinking about his historical struggles at the GAB, how rich he could be if he hits the open market and where he wants to live the next half decade of his life. If it were me, I wouldn't be rushing to sign at this moment.
    Homer is going home, to Houston, if I were a betting man/fortune teller...

    Rich, good park for him and his personal peripheral numbers; winning team? - who cares! I think he's just a good ol boy who wants to hunt, fish, and be close to momma's home cookin'...
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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  3. #1022
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    "I think we overachieved," Baker said.


    I would agree 1000%.
    Batting Cozart in the 2 hole for so long didn't help, but our lineup was severely flawed after the top 4.
    Great top 4 don't get me wrong, but the bottom 4 were a virtual black hole, especially compared to playoff peers.

    "Waiting" for Ludwick was a huge mistake too, coupled with the Byrd miss is almost inexcusable.
    I'm surprised we won 90 games after that, not to mention Cueto being on the DL multiple times.
    We got lucky with Tony C filling in so admirably, etc.

    So Choo is gone - barring a miracle - so we now have the Great 3 on offense. We hoping for a miracle year out of Billy Hamilton?
    Arroyo and his guaranteed 200+ innings and 15+ quality starts gone too. Latos has an elbow.
    Not sure any manager can make up for that.

    We need some major upgrades/holes to fill to field a playoff team this year.
    I'd call your great 3 a great 1, a really good 1 and a not terrible for a second baseman 1.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #1023
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    3rd in NL in runs scored
    4th in NL in least runs given up
    2nd in NL fielding percentage
    1st in NL in DER

    5th best record in NL


    I disagree, I think given the above, they should have had a better record.
    Yep. I really think mental errors are the prime culprit in the discrepancy (some sub-optimal but somewhat typical managerial decisions as well).

    Please, no one call it bad luck.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-06-2013 at 10:55 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #1024
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Most teams, particularly markets like Cincinnati, have to get reinforcements from their minor leagues. We're going to need that in order to replace Arroyo and Choo. That's why St Louis won the division this year.
    This. This is why I have little optimism for 2014. 2015 and 2016 I am a lot more optimistic about - there are reinforcements coming, a new wave of players from possible star caliber (Winker, Ervin, Stephenson, Lorenzen) to solid fill in the gap types (YR, SMB, Barnhart, Rogers, Contreras).

    This winter Walt has to replace one of the games best OBP guys, replace 200 innings of never miss a start reliable pitching, find some kind of decent depth for a health suspect starting rotation, fix a putrid bench, find another power bat and retool a catching platoon that no longer works (at least on the offensive side).

    The budget likely won't allow a major jump, Arroyo's savings are plowed back in arb raises already, there is little to no help coming from the farm, any real prospects he moves will impact the following two seasons depending on who is acquired and for how long.

    That means moving established players somewhere, possibly one or two of the "core" group - or - dumpster diving and band aiding the roster to try and bridge 2014 while pushing the youngsters.

    Walt's pulled off some big moves before so the first option wouldn't surprise me but I really expect him to go the latter route. Cheap FAs that go unsigned elsewhere, dumpster diving, pushing BH into the lineup on opening day etc.

    If they get lucky health wise and Ludwick returns strong they could make a strong run. Health breakdowns in the rotation, plus lack of quality depth, could mean a 2011 like summer however.

    Before I go all dismal I am going to wait and see what December and January bring. Compared to personnel issues, who is going to manage and coach seems small potatoes.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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  7. #1025
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
    When people say anything about race, they automatically think of white people. Every race on earth has racists, but other groups get as much focus.

    I don't think the Dusty situation has anything to do with race. Many fan favorites in Cincinnati aren't white. Morgan, Perez, Conception, Larkin, Eric Davis, etc. At its core Cincinnati is a blue collar town, and what is the common element among those players? All them busted their butt playing, hustled, intense drive. That's what's important here. The perception of Dusty is that all he did was lean against the dugout with his toothpick. This town values intensity, Dusty didn't have it, and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin.
    IIRC, Eric Davis was subject to a lot of unfair criticism when he was with the Reds, and I couldn't help but believe that a lot of it was based on his race. That being said, I don't think racism among fans is a uniquely Cincinnati problem. Even though Romeo Crennel didn't bring it up, I remember hearing some Browns fans making some pretty embarrassing comments about him involving race. Pittsburgh was pretty bad with it when Kordell Stewart was QB for the Steelers. Trust me, they even had t-shirts. Of course the racism tends to be more noticeable when you have a minority player or coach who is subject to high expectations and fails to live up to them.

    Dusty has referred to hate mail when he left his two previous manager stints. Should he have not brought it up? I have no problem with him bringing it up, but I think it should be viewed in a larger context that should be addressed by the league as a whole. The problem with the way it's being handled here is that it's too easy for people outside the situation to sweep it under the rug as "Dusty's sour grapes" or "it's Cincinnati's problem, not ours."
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  8. #1026

    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    IIRC, Eric Davis was subject to a lot of unfair criticism when he was with the Reds, and I couldn't help but believe that a lot of it was based on his race. That being said, I don't think racism among fans is a uniquely Cincinnati problem. Even though Romeo Crennel didn't bring it up, I remember hearing some Browns fans making some pretty embarrassing comments about him involving race. Pittsburgh was pretty bad with it when Kordell Stewart was QB for the Steelers. Trust me, they even had t-shirts. Of course the racism tends to be more noticeable when you have a minority player or coach who is subject to high expectations and fails to live up to them.

    Dusty has referred to hate mail when he left his two previous manager stints. Should he have not brought it up? I have no problem with him bringing it up, but I think it should be viewed in a larger context that should be addressed by the league as a whole. The problem with the way it's being handled here is that it's too easy for people outside the situation to sweep it under the rug as "Dusty's sour grapes" or "it's Cincinnati's problem, not ours."
    Why does he wait until he gets fired? Yep sour grapes. There is much more black on white racism than vice versa .
    PS Marge Schott did make racist remarks, Just wondering how that you know what that goes on in all these cities? Where do you live?
    Last edited by Hubba; 10-06-2013 at 11:36 AM.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  9. #1027
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    Why does he wait until he gets fired? Yep sour grapes. There is much more black on white racism than vice versa .
    Yeah us white folks got it bad, just horrible.

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  11. #1028

    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yeah us white folks got it bad, just horrible.
    WOY it is not safe for me to walk thru the black section of my town but a black person can walk thru my neighborhood safely, why is that. We have a walk area in our town that had to be shut down because of black on white crime. Check out the crime rate black on white vs white on black . Oh the hate.
    I know that I will catch hell for daring to tell the truth. but that's ok.
    Back to baseball.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

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  13. #1029
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
    Marcus Aurelius

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  15. #1030
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    This thread has officially jumped the shark
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  17. #1031
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    Why does he wait until he gets fired? Yep sour grapes. There is much more black on white racism than vice versa .
    PS Marge Schott did make racist remarks, Just wondering how that you know what that goes on in all these cities? Where do you live?
    I've lived my entire life in a number of cities that aren't Cincinnati.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  18. #1032

    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I've lived my entire life in a number of cities that aren't Cincinnati.
    Thats fair.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  19. #1033
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    I'm just not getting the negativity geared towards next year. I think the reds will be fine.
    1. Baker is gone. Great organizer of people, poor on field manager. At the end it seemed he even lost the players. And his entire tenure has to be taken into account along with his history. The mans teams just don't win the big games. Sure you have to get there, but with this reds pitching staff I think even an average manger could do that.
    2. The pitching staff. Our starting 5 are awesome. Yes arroyo may leave, but we get a draft pick more than likely to help replenish the farm that is far from depleted. Cingrani takes his place and I think the rotation will be ok especially with Stephenson in the wings and the possibility of a chapman starting experiment.
    3. The lineup. Yes that's right. As of right now we have the same lineup that won 97 games in 2012 minus Stubbs and an aging Rolen. Hamilton, I think, brings more to the table than 2012 Stubbs. Frazier is ok and probably a backup. If Walt can find some help that'd enable Frazier or ludwick to go to the bench, that instantly strengthens the bench.
    4. Walts head is in the chopping block IMO. Dusty tool the fall for 2013 when Walt could have taken a lot of the blame. I think this is the first real time with the reds he'll have his manager and be able to put his mark on the team. I look for him to make some moves.
    5. Possible moves. I think Walt will bring in veteran leaders for the bench and starting lineup as well as some right handed pop. He does his best work for the reds in the offseason. I continue to see him doing this to maybe bring in a core guy for more than a year and a solid veteran or two to hold down the fort while our young farm system matures.

    So the sky isn't falling, the earths core will not explode. The reds have top notch starters that will put them in the playoff picture and I think Walt will respond well to the pressure and bring in some upgrades for the offense. We will be ok.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 10-06-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  20. #1034
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    This thread has officially jumped the shark
    I've been telling my wife that we need a new (or old) expression that replaces the shark one. But I haven't come up with one yet.

    Certainly RedsZone knows a good one?
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  21. #1035
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty out as manager

    When did RZ get a Stormfront subforum?

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