Turn Off Ads?
Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 511121314151617181925 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 506

Thread: Trade rumor thread

  1. #211
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,174

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Ludwick's lifetime OPS means very little. You have to look at his years to seethe real picture.high ceiling, sub-level basement for a floor. If you want to bank on a 35 year old LF with an EXTENSIVE injury history, well, that's your opinion. Mine is he had a .609 OPS after the all-star break in 129 AB's. And that was in essence his entire season minus two plate appearances on opening day. I thank him for his service, tell him he's a pinch hitter and that we need his leadership in the clubhouse. If that doesn't work for him, eat the contract, lesson learned.

    Both guys behind the plate were dinged up for most of the year. Mes needs to get the bulk of the PT, but yeah, I sign another guy for insurance, just in case.

    I find this backwards. Ludwick hit almost .900 OPS for the Reds in 2012 and helped save the team when Votto went down. He misses over four months with injury in 2013 but gets no credit, no chance next year. He's benched.

    But the two catchers, neither of whom remotely has Ludwick's resume as a hitter, get excused for being dinged up and require only "insurance" presumably at AAA. Whatever.

    If they want to give Mesoraco another year, fine, no problem, but they had better add some offense back there, more than insurance sitting at AAA.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #212
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    752

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I find this backwards. Ludwick hit almost .900 OPS for the Reds in 2012 and helped save the team when Votto went down. He misses over four months with injury in 2013 but gets no credit, no chance next year. He's benched.

    But the two catchers, neither of whom remotely has Ludwick's resume as a hitter, get excused for being dinged up and require only "insurance" presumably at AAA. Whatever.

    If they want to give Mesoraco another year, fine, no problem, but they had better add some offense back there, more than insurance sitting at AAA.
    I think you need to give Mesoraco the starting catching job and see if he can handle it, at for a half of year. The times he wasn't dinged up and starting consistently he was producing.

  4. #213
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,059

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Much of this discussion is in a vacuum. Jocketty can't do a thing without a market. There's what he'd like to do, and what is possible to do.

    Looking forward to more discussion about dance partners. Maybe once the rumors start flying in the media...
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  5. Likes:

    Revering4Blue (10-12-2013)

  6. #214
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,750

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    The last thing I want the Reds to do is to take AB's away from Mesoraco next season. His biggest problem was that he wasn't getting regular AB's. He needs to start 5 games a week and get 500 AB's in the season.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #215
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,683

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Ludwick should be the starting left fielder unless the reds acquire someone substantially better that will be in left for years to come. No reason to have a two headed stopgap monster in left when your best prospects are outfielders. As far as the catching situation goes, hanigan was the main reason why the offense from that position was pitcheresquse. Baker did not seem to have much faith in Mes, and when Mes got consistent time he did well. The best route to go would be to find an offensive minded backup catcher and tell Mes the job is his and he controls his own destiny. A little faith in a player and the mental clarity of knowing you are the guy can go a long way and I think it's help Mes reach his full top prospect potential.

  8. #216
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,692

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManBand View Post
    When did Chapman receive a big contract? My thought was that a portion was deferred on a 6 Years for $30.25 Million contract..
    Chapman's details from Cot's


    Aroldis Chapman lhp
    6 years/$30.25M (2010-15)
    ◾6 years/$30.25M (2010-15)
    ◾signed by Cincinnati as an amateur free agent 1/11/10
    ◾$16.25M signing bonus ($1.5M at signing; $1.5M each Nov. 1, 2010-13; $1.25M each Nov. 1, 2014-20)
    ◾10:$1M, 11:$1M, 12:$2M, 13:$2M, 14:$3M, 15:$5M player option
    ◾Chapman must decide whether to accept or decline 2015 player option within 5 days after end of 2014 World Series
    ◾if Chapman qualifies for arbitration after 2012, $5M is converted to a bonus and he becomes arbitration-eligible
    if Chapman qualifies for arbitration after 2013, $3M is converted to a bonus and he becomes arbitration-eligible
    ◾award bonuses, including $25,000 for All-Star selection
    ◾defected from Cuba to Netherlands 7/1/09
    ◾agent: Rodney Fernandez, Hendricks Sports
    ◾ML service: 2.034
    As the bolded shows, Chapman's previously signed contract salary converts to a signing bonus ($3 Million), he gets another bonus each November ($1.25 Million) and they get to go to arb. He'll cost over $10 Million in 2014. As a starter he's a bigger question mark than anyone in the projected rotation now and as a reliever he's simply not worth the dough to a team with other needs and still relatively limited funds. The Reds are probably stuck with the $1.25 Million per year, but they should look to move the rest to a team with deeper pockets IMO while adding talent and spending the money on more needed and impactful positions.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  9. Likes:

    OneManBand (10-11-2013)

  10. #217
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,692

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Here's an example of the ability to improve the offense without trading or spending for big stars. Not saying all of these should be done, they are options.

    The Reds catchers were fourteenth in the NL in OPS. The Reds best hitting catcher, Mesoraco, was thirtieth among major league catchers with 250 PAs in OPS and Hanigan was much lower.

    If the Reds could get a .750 OPS starting catcher they would add well over 100 points of OPS right there. If they could get a .725 OPS shortstop they could add 60 OPS points. The simple return to health by Ludwick could easily add 150 OPS points.

    Second and third base are also potential areas of pickup, maybe by adding a better backup or a third base platoon.

    The bench could easily pick up 100 OPS points. The only guy whose numbers were good is Paul.

    These guys could be added by moderate free agent signings and lower level trades. Some pickups could have real salaries, but one year.

    Not saying do all of this, just some where smart pickups are available.

    Keep the good pitchers. Pay Parra a reasonable wage. Keep Chapman. Spend on pitching, be smart on offense.
    I'm all for cutting Hanigan loose and pursuing a guy like you describe. As a free agent (say Saltalamacchia) a guy like that is likely to cost $8 to $10 Million per year and the Reds don't have the cash if they sink $30 Million or so (25% of the likely budget) into the pen (Chapman $10+, Broxton $7, Marshall $5.5, Parra likely $3, Ondrusek $1.3, Simon and Lecure around $1.5 each). And just one guy like this won't be enough.

    Funny you mention this. This is exactly the move the Pirates made to help pass the Reds by. They found a taker for their pricey closer, turned the spot over to in house decent arms and spent the saved money to upgrade the catching position with Russell Martin.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-11-2013 at 09:40 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #218
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,683

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    The best solution with chapman would be just to put him in the roatation and look to trade a guy like bailey who may not return because of his contract or a guy like cueto who has more than likely peaked. This year would be a good opportunity to start chapman because Stephenson is in the wings and appears to be the real deal. If chapman falters put him back in the pen where he has had past success. If he thrives then he has more trade value and makes another starter a trade piece. Trade guys like Phillips (while I think he'll have a bounce back year in 2014 he's declining, cueto who has peaked, bailey who may not be here for the long haul, or guys like Frazier or cozart who would be expendable if the right pieces were brought in. Don't look to trade an arm like chapman unless you get blown away by the return. You just don't trade guys with special tools like chapman or Hamilton for stop gaps or prospects. You give those players opportunities to use those gifts. You trade guys that have value but don't fit into your plan or may leave or are blocked. Aka bailey Phillips cueto. And or cozart and Frazier and even ludwick if replacements are found. I think those guys combined with a prospect or two in a trade, or with a few FA signings, put the reds in a great spot. Trading chapman smells of firesale panic move unless the return is massive.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 10-11-2013 at 09:49 PM.

  12. #219
    Just A Couple Johnny's OneManBand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    361

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Chapman's details from Cot's



    As the bolded shows, Chapman's previously signed contract salary converts to a signing bonus ($3 Million), he gets another bonus each November ($1.25 Million) and they get to go to arb. He'll cost over $10 Million in 2014. As a starter he's a bigger question mark than anyone in the projected rotation now and as a reliever he's simply not worth the dough to a team with other needs and still relatively limited funds. The Reds are probably stuck with the $1.25 Million per year, but they should look to move the rest to a team with deeper pockets IMO while adding talent and spending the money on more needed and impactful positions.
    Thank you kind sir! Still relatively cheap concidering his value. To amount the innings he pitches and the amount of strikeouts he totals is amazing. But if he isn't going to be a starter then the cost may not match the value and trading him to hopefully someone in the AL would make sense. I certainly hope he stays and a switch to the rotation would be in the works.. but can't see paying 10+ Million to a closer plus 7.5 Million to a setup guy.

  13. #220
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,692

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Assuming that the most important thing is winning in 2014 (for me it is) does anyone really believe that a converting Chapman would be more valuable to the Reds in the rotation than Homer Bailey? I suppose Chapman becoming Randy Johnson is a best case scenario, but it would be an awful lot going right for him to be as good as Homer Bailey IMO. Chapman could be horrible (think Edinson Volquez). So the Reds convert Chapman, deal Bailey and put their eggs in that basket. Chapman stinks and as many have suggested, the "no risk " fall back plan is used and Chapman goes back to the pen. Meanwhile, there is a gaping hole in the rotation and the Reds finish third or fourth. Hardly seems like "no risk" to me.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. Likes:

    REDREAD (10-13-2013)

  15. #221
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,750

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Assuming that the most important thing is winning in 2014 (for me it is) does anyone really believe that a converting Chapman would be more valuable to the Reds in the rotation than Homer Bailey? I suppose Chapman becoming Randy Johnson is a best case scenario, but it would be an awful lot going right for him to be as good as Homer Bailey IMO. Chapman could be horrible (think Edinson Volquez). So the Reds convert Chapman, deal Bailey and put their eggs in that basket. Chapman stinks and as many have suggested, the "no risk " fall back plan is used and Chapman goes back to the pen. Meanwhile, there is a gaping hole in the rotation and the Reds finish third or fourth. Hardly seems like "no risk" to me.
    I can't see Chapman being horrible. Not now, he has too much experience.

    Over the last two years, Bailey was 24-22 with a 3.58 ERA. Chapman should be really close to that, and most likely, much better. Chapman won't deliver the innings in his first season starting, but I can see him matching or doing better than Bailey in everything else that matters.

    Plus, the Reds aren't going into spring training with just five starters. They'll be others competing for that fifth spot. Chapman would be the fifth starter anyway, with four very strong other starters. All that would mean is that the Reds would have a true #5 starter as their #5 starter. That won't ruin their season.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. Likes:

    MattyHo4Life (10-11-2013)

  17. #222
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,692

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I can't see Chapman being horrible. Not now, he has too much experience.

    Over the last two years, Bailey was 24-22 with a 3.58 ERA. Chapman should be really close to that, and most likely, much better. Chapman won't deliver the innings in his first season starting, but I can see him matching or doing better than Bailey in everything else that matters.

    Plus, the Reds aren't going into spring training with just five starters. They'll be others competing for that fifth spot. Chapman would be the fifth starter anyway, with four very strong other starters. All that would mean is that the Reds would have a true #5 starter as their #5 starter. That won't ruin their season.
    So how many times has Chapman paced himself in a game against major league hitters? How may times has he faced the same hitter twice in a game, or for that matter in a series or even in a month? How much has he had to use his secondary stuff? Has he really had to get his slider over the plate or can he just use his 100 MPH stuff to set it up so hitters chase (he won't have that 100 MPH stuff as a starter)? Do we know how his stuff holds up deep in the game? Does he have a usable third pitch?

    I agree that I can see Chapman being as good as Bailey, but I also can see him being Daniel Cabrera or Edinson Volquez as well. I think ignoring that possibility is a huge mistake.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  18. #223
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,750

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So how many times has Chapman paced himself in a game against major league hitters? How may times has he faced the same hitter twice in a game, or for that matter in a series or even in a month? How much has he had to use his secondary stuff? Has he really had to get his slider over the plate or can he just use his 100 MPH stuff to set it up so hitters chase (he won't have that 100 MPH stuff as a starter)? Do we know how his stuff holds up deep in the game? Does he have a usable third pitch?

    I agree that I can see Chapman being as good as Bailey, but I also can see him being Daniel Cabrera or Edinson Volquez as well. I think ignoring that possibility is a huge mistake.
    Chapman was a starter in Cuba, and in the minors for the Reds. Let's not pretend that starting is a new bizarre concept to him. It will be tougher against MLB hitters, but not different. He doesn't need to learn new skills.

    Cabrera and Volquez didn't throw 100+ MPH, weren't left handed, and never had a 14 K/IP ratio.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  19. #224
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,174

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm all for cutting Hanigan loose and pursuing a guy like you describe. As a free agent (say Saltalamacchia) a guy like that is likely to cost $8 to $10 Million per year and the Reds don't have the cash if they sink $30 Million or so (25% of the likely budget) into the pen (Chapman $10+, Broxton $7, Marshall $5.5, Parra likely $3, Ondrusek $1.3, Simon and Lecure around $1.5 each). And just one guy like this won't be enough.

    Funny you mention this. This is exactly the move the Pirates made to help pass the Reds by. They found a taker for their pricey closer, turned the spot over to in house decent arms and spent the saved money to upgrade the catching position with Russell Martin.
    I appreciate the comparison between Joel Hanrahan and Aroldis Chapman. It really makes my point more clearly than I ever could.

    Lumping together all "closers" is just about the worst way to make trade decisions. Focus on the talent level and the arm you are relinquishing.

    As for new additions, I'm sure Walt and Co. are savvy enough to find mid-level players to fill spots without overpaying. They certainly don't have to trade Aroldis Chapman to fill out the roster with solid major leaguers.

  20. Likes:

    Old school 1983 (10-11-2013)

  21. #225
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,750

    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As for new additions, I'm sure Walt and Co. are savvy enough to find mid-level players to fill spots without overpaying. They certainly don't have to trade Aroldis Chapman to fill out the roster with solid major leaguers.
    I don't know. It worked so well when the Reds traded George Foster for Alex Trevino, Greg Harris and Jim Kern
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  22. Likes:

    Kc61 (10-11-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25