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Thread: Trade rumor thread

  1. #346
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think you are undervaluing Mad Max a tad, he is a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball.
    Max might work out here, but I do not think that you go after rental SP. We have a very good rotation right now and for the future, we are getting Stephenson and possibly Corcino and Travieso once they develop.

    I think the trade to Detroit needs to be BP for Castellanos.
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  4. #347
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think you are undervaluing Mad Max a tad, he is a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball.
    MLB history is littered with pitchers who had one good year in the middle of their career. Stay away.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #348
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilHamburger View Post

    Bottom line is I think Choo is probably gone and he was a major factor in the Reds being 3rd in offense. I'd argue hitting is the new pitching in the era we are in, and I hope Walt see's it. The Reds simply can't go into next year with Frazier, Cozart, Mesoraco, Ludwick, Hamilton and the pitcher as 6 of their starting lineup. That's just begging for a 3rd place finish in the division.
    I agree with your post but disagree with your adoption of the "third in offense" contention.

    The Reds were third in aggregate runs scored in the NL. IMO that is not the same as third in offense.

    A better way of evaluating the offense IMO would be to look at the team's wRC+, park and league adjusted measure of a team's offense. The Reds were sixth in the NL.

    When you look at all elements, high OBP, tenth SLG in the league (GABP team), below .250 BA, I think the wRC+ rating is a good summary of the offense.

    I'd note that OPS+ has the Reds ranked even lower, 7th-8th.

    However the Reds view it, it's obviously not an empty debate. They have to decide how they want to approach the off-season. I think several more average to above average bats is critical even if Choo stays, but especially if he doesn't. I hope the Reds agree, but we'll find out eventually if they do.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-21-2013 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #349
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    MLB history is littered with pitchers who had one good year in the middle of their career. Stay away.
    The only thing is he did not "one good year"

    He actually had a higher k/9 in 2012. 11.1 - wow

  7. #350
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Just throwing an idea out there, but maybe we can still trade with the Dodgers.

    They have been linked to both Cano and Price. But they are both going to cost too much in terms of $ and prospects. Maybe we can offer the Dodgers players that are a step down from Cano and Price that are cheaper and solves their logjam in the OF.

    My thinking is that we can swing a trade where we give them BP, Cueto, and Broxton for Kemp and Mark Ellis.

    They get a 2B to fill in until Guerrero is ready in which case BP can move to 3B (two holes that they have to fill this offseason). They also get another ace to add to their rotation as well as some bullpen help too.

    We get a CF with MVP talent and right handed power. His contract is pretty hefty at $20M a year, but it only goes until he is 34. So he is definitely within the age range to live up to being paid that much. Of course this means we cannot sign Choo, but this may work out better as we can play Kemp in CF in 2014 and move him to LF in 2015 and Billy in CF in 2015. Ellis could also be a nice 2B fill in. He is no BP defensively and he is 37. But he is only making $5.25M in 2014 and $5.3M in 2015 with a $1M buyout. Not to mention that he a decent year at the plate. Not high SLG or OPS, but better OBP and BA than BP. We move Chapman to a SP and move LeCure or Hoover as closer.

    I know it is highly unlikely, but I think it theoretically makes sense for both teams. I also did some payroll analysis. With BP, Cueto, and Broxton gone and add Kemp and Ellis along with the arb numbers from MLBTR article today....our 2014 payroll looks something like $110M which is in the same ballpark as 2013. That number does not include the likely resigning of Parra and another backup INF for Izturis. However, 2015 looks a little higher around $120M, but that number is including projected extensions to Bailey and Latos at 5 year $90M for Latos and 5 year $85M for Bailey based on the Offseason Outlook article numbers from MLBTR. We might be cheaper if we let one leave for Stephenson in 2015.

    Thoughts?
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  8. #351
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Just throwing an idea out there, but maybe we can still trade with the Dodgers.

    They have been linked to both Cano and Price. But they are both going to cost too much in terms of $ and prospects. Maybe we can offer the Dodgers players that are a step down from Cano and Price that are cheaper and solves their logjam in the OF.

    My thinking is that we can swing a trade where we give them BP, Cueto, and Broxton for Kemp and Mark Ellis.

    They get a 2B to fill in until Guerrero is ready in which case BP can move to 3B (two holes that they have to fill this offseason). They also get another ace to add to their rotation as well as some bullpen help too.

    We get a CF with MVP talent and right handed power. His contract is pretty hefty at $20M a year, but it only goes until he is 34. So he is definitely within the age range to live up to being paid that much. Of course this means we cannot sign Choo, but this may work out better as we can play Kemp in CF in 2014 and move him to LF in 2015 and Billy in CF in 2015. Ellis could also be a nice 2B fill in. He is no BP defensively and he is 37. But he is only making $5.25M in 2014 and $5.3M in 2015 with a $1M buyout. Not to mention that he a decent year at the plate. Not high SLG or OPS, but better OBP and BA than BP. We move Chapman to a SP and move LeCure or Hoover as closer.

    I know it is highly unlikely, but I think it theoretically makes sense for both teams. I also did some payroll analysis. With BP, Cueto, and Broxton gone and add Kemp and Ellis along with the arb numbers from MLBTR article today....our 2014 payroll looks something like $110M which is in the same ballpark as 2013. That number does not include the likely resigning of Parra and another backup INF for Izturis. However, 2015 looks a little higher around $120M, but that number is including projected extensions to Bailey and Latos at 5 year $90M for Latos and 5 year $85M for Bailey based on the Offseason Outlook article numbers from MLBTR. We might be cheaper if we let one leave for Stephenson in 2015.

    Thoughts?
    I love the idea but idk how tradeable broxton is with his contract especially with 2013s injury issues. But I'd definitely like to move BP and cueto in a deal with a nice return like that. I think BP has worn out his welcome and Cueto has peaked. I still think they offer nice value and could net a nice return while keeping bailey in the rotation with another year to extend him or get a draft pick out of him.

  9. #352
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I love the idea but idk how tradeable broxton is with his contract especially with 2013s injury issues. But I'd definitely like to move BP and cueto in a deal with a nice return like that. I think BP has worn out his welcome and Cueto has peaked. I still think they offer nice value and could net a nice return while keeping bailey in the rotation with another year to extend him or get a draft pick out of him.
    I was also thinking that maybe we make it BP, Cueto, and Ludwick for Kemp and Ellis.

    That way Ludwick becomes a 4th OF for them. Which is a role he would probably thrive in as long as he doesn't call out the fans. 50,000 boos is going to be a lot louder than the 30,000 he got here.
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  10. #353
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Here is your lineup on opening day:

    DeJesus CF
    Phillips 2nd
    Votto 1st
    Sandoval 3rd
    Bruce Right
    Ruiz catcher
    Ludwick Left
    Cozart ss
    Cueto pitcher

  11. #354
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    I'd go with the idea of signing Volquez and trying him at closer. Chapman to the rotation along with Cingrani. Sign Homer to a 4-5 year deal, make Arroyo the qualifying offer. He'll likely turn it down for less per year, but additional years. I see him getting 3 years/24M.

    Sign Choo and Navarro. Trade Leake to the Mets for Lucas Duda (LF). Throw in Felix Perez.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #355
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'd go with the idea of signing Volquez and trying him at closer. Chapman to the rotation along with Cingrani. Sign Homer to a 4-5 year deal, make Arroyo the qualifying offer. He'll likely turn it down for less per year, but additional years. I see him getting 3 years/24M.

    Sign Choo and Navarro. Trade Leake to the Mets for Lucas Duda (LF). Throw in Felix Perez.
    You do realize this is the Reds and not the Dodgers, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  13. #356
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'd go with the idea of signing Volquez and trying him at closer. Chapman to the rotation along with Cingrani. Sign Homer to a 4-5 year deal, make Arroyo the qualifying offer. He'll likely turn it down for less per year, but additional years. I see him getting 3 years/24M.

    Sign Choo and Navarro. Trade Leake to the Mets for Lucas Duda (LF). Throw in Felix Perez.
    Money might be an issue with Choo, Navarro, Homer, and Volquez. However, I would think that Volquez is going to be Cordero-clone by walking the first 2 batters of the inning.
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  14. #357
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Just throwing an idea out there, but maybe we can still trade with the Dodgers.

    They have been linked to both Cano and Price. But they are both going to cost too much in terms of $ and prospects. Maybe we can offer the Dodgers players that are a step down from Cano and Price that are cheaper and solves their logjam in the OF.

    My thinking is that we can swing a trade where we give them BP, Cueto, and Broxton for Kemp and Mark Ellis.

    They get a 2B to fill in until Guerrero is ready in which case BP can move to 3B (two holes that they have to fill this offseason). They also get another ace to add to their rotation as well as some bullpen help too.

    We get a CF with MVP talent and right handed power. His contract is pretty hefty at $20M a year, but it only goes until he is 34. So he is definitely within the age range to live up to being paid that much. Of course this means we cannot sign Choo, but this may work out better as we can play Kemp in CF in 2014 and move him to LF in 2015 and Billy in CF in 2015. Ellis could also be a nice 2B fill in. He is no BP defensively and he is 37. But he is only making $5.25M in 2014 and $5.3M in 2015 with a $1M buyout. Not to mention that he a decent year at the plate. Not high SLG or OPS, but better OBP and BA than BP. We move Chapman to a SP and move LeCure or Hoover as closer.

    I know it is highly unlikely, but I think it theoretically makes sense for both teams. I also did some payroll analysis. With BP, Cueto, and Broxton gone and add Kemp and Ellis along with the arb numbers from MLBTR article today....our 2014 payroll looks something like $110M which is in the same ballpark as 2013. That number does not include the likely resigning of Parra and another backup INF for Izturis. However, 2015 looks a little higher around $120M, but that number is including projected extensions to Bailey and Latos at 5 year $90M for Latos and 5 year $85M for Bailey based on the Offseason Outlook article numbers from MLBTR. We might be cheaper if we let one leave for Stephenson in 2015.

    Thoughts?
    Love the premise but I'd prefer to alter it slightly (cue fantasyland GM):

    Phillips, Broxton and Ludwick for Kemp. No additional money changes hands.

    If they insist, we could add Leake if they added $20 million bucks.

    Then make Arroyo a qualifying offer.
    ---If he accepts, great - trade Bailey for Profar.
    ---If he doesn't, sign Choo. Then trade Hamilton, Winker and one other piece for Profar. You can replace one of those prospects with the draft pick we'll get - plus we have less of a need for OF prospects if we have Bruce, Kemp AND Choo locked up for the next few years.

    You then either have (if Arroyo rejects):

    LF Choo
    1B Votto
    CF Kemp
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    SS Profar
    C Mesoraco
    2B Cozart

    SP Latos
    SP Cueto
    SP Cingrani
    SP Bailey (for one more year - definitely walking after 2014 with this payroll)
    SP Chapman

    OR (if Arroyo accepts)

    CF Hamilton
    1B Votto
    LF Kemp
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    SS Profar
    C Mesoraco
    2B Cozart

    SP Latos
    SP Cueto
    SP Cingrani
    SP Arroyo (one year only at this price)
    SP Chapman

    And I believe not a huge payroll difference from the status quo - so long as you can keep Choo to a 3 or 4 year deal. The Kemp money increases the payroll significantly 2017-2020 once you lose the offset from BP/Ludwick/Broxton/Leake. The major flaw in this plan may be the lack of funds leftover to extend Latos (and Cueto if needed) in the out years. Stephenson replaces Bailey or Arroyo in the rotation in either scenario beginning in 2015. You just need to figure out a way to keep Latos and (maybe) Cueto in the fold after 2015.

    If you need to, non-tender or trade Heisey and Hanigan to keep the funds right. We don't need expensive backup OF with this OF in place, and we could replace Hanigan with Barnhart or some other league-minimum veteran if we had to.

    Of course none of this would ever happen, but it is fun to dream.
    Last edited by Benihana; 10-22-2013 at 06:14 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  15. #358
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'd go with the idea of signing Volquez and trying him at closer. Chapman to the rotation along with Cingrani. Sign Homer to a 4-5 year deal, make Arroyo the qualifying offer. He'll likely turn it down for less per year, but additional years. I see him getting 3 years/24M.

    Sign Choo and Navarro. Trade Leake to the Mets for Lucas Duda (LF). Throw in Felix Perez.
    I don't think a high walk pitcher is a good ninth inning closer idea.

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    REDREAD (10-24-2013), Tom Servo (10-23-2013)

  17. #359
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    I would kill someone (anyone) for Sandoval to be on this team. Votto-Sandoval-Bruce would be absolutely terrifying for any pitcher to face. And Panda hits in October.

  18. #360
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    Re: Trade rumor thread

    What kind of deal does everyone see Ellsbury getting? I could see the Reds going that route if Choo doesn't stay. You'd get more speed at the top & a better defender in CF. He could slide to LF & give Ludwick days off, while also letting Hamilton ease his way in to CF. It could be a 3 player platoon of sorts. When Ludwick's contract is over move Ellsbury over to LF with Hamilton in CF & you have 2 speedsters at the top of the order for the likes of Votto/Bruce. Obviously, health is a concern but the thoughts of him & Hamilton on base in front of Votto/Bruce is fun to think about.


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