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Thread: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

  1. #16
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob jones View Post
    cingrani is better and cheaper, let him walk
    I'm not advocating giving Arroyo a 3 yr. deal, but I'm not sure Cingrani is the answer. He's already been on the DL twice with barely 1 yr. service time. He throws harder, he's LH, and certainly younger and cheaper. He hasn't really been around long enough for teams to figure him out, and I say the jury's still out on him.

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  4. #17
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    I'd definitely make him a qualifying offer.

    I don't consider one-year contracts a real 'risk' in the grand scheme of things. No franchise has ever been financially crippled by a one-year deal. Bronson may not be a bargain at $13MM, but he wouldn't be terribly overpaid either. Worst case scenario, Bronson stays, and Cingrani eats up 100 bullpen innings that would gone to chaff like Ondrusek and Reynolds. Best case scenario, Bronson gets his money, Cingrani takes his spot in the rotation, and the Reds get $13MM and an extra draft pick to play with.
    Last edited by Steve4192; 10-06-2013 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I'd definitely make him a qualifying offer.

    I don't consider one-year contracts a real 'risk' in the grand scheme of things. No franchise has ever been financially crippled by a one-year deal.
    I'm not saying they'll be crippled, but if he accepts that offer the money won't be there to go after Choo. Budget at 110 million, 79 million on contracts for next year, Bronson accepts 14 million and you're at 93 million. You still have to give offers to the arb eligibles, so a qualifying offer to Arroyo in effects kills any attempt to bring back Choo.

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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I'm not saying they'll be crippled, but if he accepts that offer the money won't be there to go after Choo. Budget at 110 million, 79 million on contracts for next year, Bronson accepts 14 million and you're at 93 million. You still have to give offers to the arb eligibles, so a qualifying offer to Arroyo in effects kills any attempt to bring back Choo.
    Choo ain't gonna happen anyway....
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    I make the qualifying offer, but unlike several here I don't think its a given he turns it down. Like someone else said, he can always take the $14M and get a two-year deal next year. Another thing to consider is his list. Most aren't going to have a protected pick and will have to be willing to sacrifice a 1st round to sign BA. Possible there is someone who would do it, but far from certain.

    As for the Reds side of things? I'd gladly take the picks and if he does take the offer, I'd use him as a 1yr bridge to Stephenson and look to deal one of Bailey, Cueto, Chapman or possibly even Locke to bolster the offense if I got the right offer. Yeah, he'd be somewhat overpaid, but just for one season.

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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I'd definitely make him a qualifying offer.

    I don't consider one-year contracts a real 'risk' in the grand scheme of things. No franchise has ever been financially crippled by a one-year deal. Bronson may not be a bargain at $13MM, but he wouldn't be terribly overpaid either. Worst case scenario, Bronson stays, and Cingrani eats up 100 bullpen innings that would gone to chaff like Ondrusek and Reynolds. Best case scenario, Bronson gets his money, Cingrani takes his spot in the rotation, and the Reds get $13MM and an extra draft pick to play with.
    If Bronson accepts, it puts the Reds in a better position to trade Bailey, who likely would be making around $10M himself next year. It wouldn't blow up the payroll at all.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I'm not saying they'll be crippled, but if he accepts that offer the money won't be there to go after Choo. Budget at 110 million, 79 million on contracts for next year, Bronson accepts 14 million and you're at 93 million. You still have to give offers to the arb eligibles, so a qualifying offer to Arroyo in effects kills any attempt to bring back Choo.
    Took the word out of my mouth (keyboard). Those of you wanting to make a qualifying offer, will you feel the same way if he takes it and the Reds lose the chance to re-sign Choo? Bronson's pretty smart, it is possible he is making these comments hoping that it will convince the Reds to make a qualifying offer which he'll take, knowing there is no other way he'll make $13-14 million otherwise.

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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    He'll get at least 15 million on a multiyear deal of some kind. Which he'd take over a 14 million one-year deal.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  15. #24
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    I know this comes off as nitpicking, but the title of this thread should read "Per Boston Globe." MLBTR shouldn't be sourced on here for about 90 percent of the stuff that appears on their site. They are (usually) nothing more than just a aggregator of news. The original source of the information is who should be credited when sourcing.

    Though it would never come to this for something so innocent, as it has become commonplace on message boards to give credit to MLBTR, the truth is that in theory, it could theoretically be copyright infringement without proper credit. Fair use allows for posting snippets of articles but the original author/source should be credited. Like I said, in 90 percent of cases in which MLBTR has posted information, they're not the original source and are just posting a snippet of other peoples' work.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  17. #25
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    757690-It takes two sides to make a trade. Trade talks break down all the time. You can't assume a trade will be made.

    RedLeg-Not if you make a offer to Arroyo.

  18. #26
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    RedLeg-Not if you make a offer to Arroyo.
    Doesn't matter. Choo isn't happening. He will simply get too much for Cincy. Period. After Pence there is no way Choo signs for less than 5/100 million and no way in blue blazes Cincy offers that. No way. Arroyo has nothing whatever to do with it. I'd love to be wrong and I'll gladly eat crow if the Reds sign him.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 10-06-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    He'll get at least 15 million on a multiyear deal of some kind. Which he'd take over a 14 million one-year deal.
    Not sure I follow this. My guess is an offer will suppress his market to the point that a 2 year deal in the $15 to $20 Million range is the absolute best he could do.

    He could accept a $14 Million offer, negotiate a 1 year extension that favors the Reds and still make more IMO. His agent probably understands that as well and he wouldn't need to go anywhere.

    The risk with Arroyo accepting is that it pushes the Reds payroll higher in 2014 and could force them to deal elsewhere. Sure they could trade Bailey, but the return will already be discounted because he only has a year left, but if team's know that the Reds are motivated to move cash, the return would be even less. I think an offer to Arroyo could likely lead to the Reds getting their pocket picked in the subsequent moves (and the team would still have a lesser rotation in 2014). I just don't see a potential sandwich pick (Jeff Gelalich anyone?) being worth it.

    It really depends on the budget for 2014. If money isn't an issue (and based on the behavior at the deadline, I'd say it is), then I'd surely make the offer. If Arroyo accepting blows the budget and not only prevents an acquisition, but forces a salary dump or two, the risk just isn't worth it IMO.
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not sure I follow this. My guess is an offer will suppress his market to the point that a 2 year deal in the $15 to $20 Million range is the absolute best he could do.

    He could accept a $14 Million offer, negotiate a 1 year extension that favors the Reds and still make more IMO. His agent probably understands that as well and he wouldn't need to go anywhere.

    The risk with Arroyo accepting is that it pushes the Reds payroll higher in 2014 and could force them to deal elsewhere. Sure they could trade Bailey, but the return will already be discounted because he only has a year left, but if team's know that the Reds are motivated to move cash, the return would be even less. I think an offer to Arroyo could likely lead to the Reds getting their pocket picked in the subsequent moves (and the team would still have a lesser rotation in 2014). I just don't see a potential sandwich pick (Jeff Gelalich anyone?) being worth it.

    It really depends on the budget for 2014. If money isn't an issue (and based on the behavior at the deadline, I'd say it is), then I'd surely make the offer. If Arroyo accepting blows the budget and not only prevents an acquisition, but forces a salary dump or two, the risk just isn't worth it IMO.
    Look what a few months of Feldman and Garza got for the Cubs. Starting pitching always brings the goods, even for just one year. Indians got one of the top MLB ready pitching prospects for one year of Choo. Bailey will bring back some serious talent, quite easily.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  23. #29
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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Look what a few months of Feldman and Garza got for the Cubs. Starting pitching always brings the goods, even for just one year. Indians got one of the top MLB ready pitching prospects for one year of Choo. Bailey will bring back some serious talent, quite easily.
    It better, because keeping Arroyo and dealing Bailey is a significant downgrade to the 2014 rotation. A rental Bailey where teams know the Reds have to dump him because they are overstocked in the rotation and over-committed in cash, may get the Reds a decent prospect or two, but probably not any that are ready to help the team in a meaningful way in 2014 (because those guys will be dealt for David Price and others who are better, more under control or with teams who can say no if they are getting low-balled). Consolation prize prospects, even if they will be part of the core in 2017 or so, isn't what I'd be after while downgrading the 2014 rotation. I want this team to make a run at the series in 2014, not risk taking a step back trying to add some mythical marginal prospect that a sandwich pick may bring.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: per mlbtraderumors.com, Bronson Arroyo wants a 3 year deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    It better, because keeping Arroyo and dealing Bailey is a significant downgrade to the 2014 rotation. A rental Bailey where teams know the Reds have to dump him because they are overstocked in the rotation and over-committed in cash, may get the Reds a decent prospect or two, but probably not any that are ready to help the team in a meaningful way in 2014 (because those guys will be dealt for David Price and others who are better, more under control or with teams who can say no if they are getting low-balled). Consolation prize prospects, even if they will be part of the core in 2017 or so, isn't what I'd be after while downgrading the 2014 rotation. I want this team to make a run at the series in 2014, not risk taking a step back trying to add some mythical marginal prospect that a sandwich pick may bring.
    Arroyo and Bailey put up almost identical numbers last year. Who knows what happens next year, but it's not like choosing between Greg Reynolds and Mat Latos.

    There are plenty of teams that crave a starting pitcher of Bailey's talent. Price on the block will have very little effect on Bailey's trade value, since he's on a different plane talent wise than Bailey. Bailey would never bring back the players that Price will, so they really aren't in competition. Even if they are, there are plenty of teams that will be bidding for Bailey'a services, regardless of Price.

    And if you don't want to trade Bailey, you could always trade Chapman. He definitely would bring pack a boatload of talent. In fact, if I'm the Reds, I'm offering him to the Rays for Price.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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