Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 92

Thread: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5,830

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    Remember when it was the "traditional baseball guys" that were dogmatic, condescending, and intellectually dishonest? Looks like they've got company.
    It's come full circle in a very short period of time. Stats very rarely lie but your eyes and gut sure do.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bexley, OH
    Posts
    7,459

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Article isn't stolen, it's syndication.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  4. #18
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    15,078

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    On BP.com the article was titled:

    "Overthinking it: Dusty Baker and the Modern Manager's Survival Guide"
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #19
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,800

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I actually quite like this quote:



    I think the main problem with that article is the headline from Deadspin. Without that, it would come off a lot less, well, stupid.

    The data behind it, really, is the Birnbaum post, which does actually have evidence and refers to the Sloan Conference.
    Saying that batting Cozart second is one of the dumbest decisions a manager can make is simply wrong. Batting Cozart second might be a bad decision, but it's nothing like playing Joey Votto at SS, or bunting with Jay Bruce beHind by 5 runs. Batting Cozart second is a decision a pn average manager makes instead of a saber thinking manager. It's part of that group of decisions he mentioned that affect around 2 wins over the course of a season.

    And saying Baker asked Votto to be less productive is arrogant, condescending, insulting and just plain false.

    The writer is assuming that any decision he doesn't agree with is an incredibley dumb decisions, one of the dumbest a manager can make. That's why the article is stupid.

    I'm guessing that the writer has his feelings hurt by some of Baker's anti-saber comments, and used this petty, mean article as a way to get even. This really is something I'd expect out of a 6th grader.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    34,857

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Of course batting Cozart second is not the dumbest decision a manager could make, but it is one of the dumber decisions that someone who would actually be given the job will make. No one actually given the keys to the managers office is going to play Joey Votto at shortstop or put Devin Mesoraco in center field. There are a few that will do things like hit a batter similar to Cozart second though, and that is just about as bad of an idea that any of the 30 guys with managers office keys are actually going to make.

  7. Likes:

    Homer Bailey (10-08-2013), Razor Shines (10-08-2013), RedEye (10-08-2013), redsrule2500 (10-08-2013), WMR (10-08-2013)

  8. #21
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,800

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Of course batting Cozart second is not the dumbest decision a manager could make, but it is one of the dumber decisions that someone who would actually be given the job will make. No one actually given the keys to the managers office is going to play Joey Votto at shortstop or put Devin Mesoraco in center field. There are a few that will do things like hit a batter similar to Cozart second though, and that is just about as bad of an idea that any of the 30 guys with managers office keys are actually going to make.
    If you read the article the writer is saying that batting Cozart second is dumber than the average bad decision a manager makes. He is saying it's a decision his mother, or someone with zero baseball knowledge would make.

    Baker might be among the best clubhouse leaders of men, at least until whatever influence he has on his players wears off. But in other respects, hiring him is like picking your mother to manage.
    That's the whole point of his article. He's saying that Dusty doesn't just make bad decisions, he make decision that someone who is trying to lose on purpose would make.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #22
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    The headline was totally unnecessary. The content of the article was solid. I just don't see the need for a headline that demeans a guy like Dusty Baker. The guy has been a fixture in the game of baseball since before I was born. His teams have won a lot of baseball games and he was a really good player before that. I'm glad the team moved on as I don't think he was right for the Reds anymore. But is too much to ask to not call the guy stupid (even though in the actual article, he says Dusty is not stupid). Not sure if the author is the one who penned that headline or not, but it detracted from an otherwise insightful piece.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  10. Likes:

    RedlegJake (10-08-2013), Revering4Blue (10-08-2013), westofyou (10-08-2013)

  11. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    378

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    In addition to his execrable decisions, he had the thinnest of epidermis which bristled whenever someone would question his vast reservoir of baseball cliches

  12. #24
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    7,939

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    And saying Baker asked Votto to be less productive is arrogant, condescending, insulting and just plain false.
    If Baker asked Votto to "be aggressive" or "put the ball in play" (which we know he did many times for other players, so it is not much of a stretch) then the author is absolutely on solid ground. I'll agree he is perhaps guilty of speculation -- but I'm not sure if it is any of the other things you accuse him of here.

  13. #25
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,543

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    I agree with the premise that smart will be neutralized but dumb will be manifested because it is leveraged by smart.

    It's like pitcher's BABIP. Deviations away from normal in the direction of lower eventually regress back to normal while deviations away from normal in the direction of higher could be sustainable-i.e. a guy isn't major quality or he is hurt or he is done.

    Now when you apply that paradigm to a specific individual like Baker, it might not hold true because it's begging the question concerning the stupid quotient of his decisions in total compared to the stupid quotient of some baseline (i.e. it gets foggy in a hurry).
    Last edited by jojo; 10-08-2013 at 01:49 PM.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #26
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    7,939

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    If you read the article the writer is saying that batting Cozart second is dumber than the average bad decision a manager makes. He is saying it's a decision his mother, or someone with zero baseball knowledge would make.
    The author does not refer to his mother. That's part of a quote from Birnbaum. Maybe he exercised poor judgment in including that part of the quote, but those aren't his words.

    I don't see how it is even arguable that batting Cozart second is a good decision when you've got other better options available. It's not complicated to give more AB's to your better hitters. Cozart is one of the worst hitters in the NL (as were Willy Taveras and Corey Patterson before him).

  15. #27
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,800

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    If Baker asked Votto to "be aggressive" or "put the ball in play" (which we know he did many times for other players, so it is not much of a stretch) then the author is absolutely on solid ground. I'll agree he is perhaps guilty of speculation -- but I'm not sure if it is any of the other things you accuse him of here.
    Asking Votto to put the ball play or be more aggressive, is not asking Votto to be less productive. That stats are clear that being more aggressive can lead to more production, as it also can lead to less production. It's not a clear solid case at all, at least not according to the numbers.

    I produced quotes where the author literally says hiring Dusty Baker to be your manager is like hiring your mother. Here is it's again:

    Baker might be among the best clubhouse leaders of men, at least until whatever influence he has on his players wears off. But in other respects, hiring him is like picking your mother to manage.
    The writer makes good points about generally really dumb decisions hurt you worse than really good decisions help you. But using Baker as evidence of this is simply wrong. Baker's biggest fault is that he goes strictly by the old book, which is pretty standard, boring stuff. Baker doesn't make crazy stupid decisions that make no sense, as the writer accuses him of doing.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. Likes:

    wlf WV (10-10-2013)

  17. #28
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    The article even states Dusty isn't stupid, but states some things he did were not smart.
    Potato - Pota-toe

    ...

    Add enough of those "not very smart" things together and what do you get?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  18. #29
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by bob jones View Post
    In addition to his execrable decisions, he had the thinnest of epidermis which bristled whenever someone would question his vast reservoir of baseball cliches
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  19. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    378

    Re: "You can't Neutralize Stupid." an article on Dusty Baker

    He also kept his "top secret" lineup to himself and felt that it was not anyone else business to discern rationale for his visceral based decisions

    If he were managing the Reds in the 70's

    sthe line up would be

    1) Geronimo CF
    2) Woodward SS

    After all in the Dr. Seuss book of Dusty's imagination, doesnt the centerfielder hit first and the short stop second

    Dont we have to "get them going" so they can be "dealin" big time??


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25