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Thread: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

  1. #16
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    You do understand that any philosophy has multiple facets, correct?

    Beane is given peanuts to work with and produced a team that was third in the AL in runs scored and 2nd in MLB in Defensive Efficiency rating. You think both those things just happened by accident?
    Complete agree. I was trying to compliment Beane. He made adjustments as the baseball world adjusted, and the A's are still winning. Just pointing out that fans who want to use him to complain about Sabermetrics, are barking up the wrong tree these days.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  3. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    I don't think much of any argument grounded in a teams performance against very good competition in a small sample of games.

    But one who does should takes note of the way in which the Reds lost their playoff series compared the A's. The A's have been extremely close and come up just short each time, think Giambi not sliding or Terrance Long losing it in the lights (in a game played at dusk for TV reasons) in Games 5. Meanwhile, the Reds got no-hit and embarrassed by Philly, completely fell apart at home for 3 games against SF and then sleepwalked into and out of the playoffs this year.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #18
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think much of any argument grounded in a teams performance against very good competition in a small sample of games.

    But one who does should takes note of the way in which the Reds lost their playoff series compared the A's. The A's have been extremely close and come up just short each time, think Giambi not sliding or Terrance Long losing it in the lights (in a game played at dusk for TV reasons) in Games 5. Meanwhile, the Reds got no-hit and embarrassed by Philly, completely fell apart at home for 3 games against SF and then sleepwalked into and out of the playoffs this year.
    I still, for the life of me, don't get the argument that the Reds "choked" last year. I think it's a stubborn belief that the Giants just aren't a good franchise that colors that opinion (hint: it's because they're deemed a dip-cup old boy franchise). The Reds took the eventual World Champions, who spanked the crap out of the loaded Tigers (and after we begin to see the shape of this current phase of the Cardinals dynasty we'll better appreciate in hindsight what a remorselessly good team the Giants knocked off in the St. Louis Cardinals), to the limit. Yeah, Latos choked on his neck-tats, but really, they played a great series against a great team with a deadly bullpen clicking on all cylinders.

    I similarly don't understand why Beane is above reproach for his playoff failures. Tampa has been more successful with a similar payroll. I know, I know, it's all a crapshoot.

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  6. #19
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Neck tats?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  7. #20
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think much of any argument grounded in a teams performance against very good competition in a small sample of games.

    But one who does should takes note of the way in which the Reds lost their playoff series compared the A's. The A's have been extremely close and come up just short each time, think Giambi not sliding or Terrance Long losing it in the lights (in a game played at dusk for TV reasons) in Games 5. Meanwhile, the Reds got no-hit and embarrassed by Philly, completely fell apart at home for 3 games against SF and then sleepwalked into and out of the playoffs this year.
    That's a very biased way of looking at it.

    How about saying that they are 1-6 in ALDS series with all 6 losses coming in game 5 (can't close?) and that 2 of those losses came after being up 2-0? And then, in the one ALCS they did make, they were swept?

  8. #21
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    A few observations about the A's off the top of my head:

    1. As baseball adjusted to the original tenets of Moneyball and it turned out stars weren't quite as easy to replace as Michael Lewis wrote, Oakland went through a five-year period that was mostly defined by churn. It's to Beane's credit that he's been able to come up with another excellent team using a different formula than the first.

    2. It's also a testament to his stature that he's still there. Most GMs wouldn't survive a five-year stretch of at or under .500. But the A's owners have not only given him a succession of long-term contracts, they gave him a piece of the team.

    3. From an outsider's perspective, besides the obvious value that's derived from having a preponderance of young talent, the A's season also pointed out the value of simply not having any black holes in the lineup. Pitch, play good team defense, don't have any automatic outs from one through nine, and you can win a lot of games.
    Not all who wander are lost

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  10. #22
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    One think that really intrigues me is how GMs have pretty much skated through the PED storm. Beane's early success, at least, was built with a lot of help in that space.

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  12. #23
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    One think that really intrigues me is how GMs have pretty much skated through the PED storm. Beane's early success, at least, was built with a lot of help in that space.
    Every GM in the game had alot of help in that space.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #24
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Every GM in the game had alot of help in that space.
    Some more than others.

  14. #25
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Some more than others.
    Prove it.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #26
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Prove it.
    Hold on, let me get the independent blood tests that I conducted from '96-'05. Be right back.

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  17. #27
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Hold on, let me get the independent blood tests that I conducted from '96-'05. Be right back.
    I'll wait because you've clearly indicated that you have a factual basis for your bias.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  18. #28
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    I think Beane's A's clearly benefited more than the average team from PED use ten or so years ago. However, since testing has gotten stronger, his teams are still winning, so his success probably wasn't only due to PED use.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  19. #29
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Neck tats?
    His Ronnie Dobbs porch tats?

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  21. #30
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    Re: Oakland A's lack of playoff success

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    A few observations about the A's off the top of my head:

    1. As baseball adjusted to the original tenets of Moneyball and it turned out stars weren't quite as easy to replace as Michael Lewis wrote, Oakland went through a five-year period that was mostly defined by churn. It's to Beane's credit that he's been able to come up with another excellent team using a different formula than the first.

    2. It's also a testament to his stature that he's still there. Most GMs wouldn't survive a five-year stretch of at or under .500. But the A's owners have not only given him a succession of long-term contracts, they gave him a piece of the team.

    3. From an outsider's perspective, besides the obvious value that's derived from having a preponderance of young talent, the A's season also pointed out the value of simply not having any black holes in the lineup. Pitch, play good team defense, don't have any automatic outs from one through nine, and you can win a lot of games.
    Great post. Beane deserves a lot of credit, but it is kinda funny how people quickly forget that they spent 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 going nowhere. Given his restraints, it's still impressive, but not as impressive as what Andrew Freidman and the Rays have done since 2008. In a way it's fitting that Beane owns part of the Athletics and is allowed the room to rebuild the team every few years because it's kind of a less extreme version of what Connie Mack had to do with the team in Philadelphia all of those years ago.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."


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