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Thread: 40 Man Roster - 2014

  1. #61
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Sure if somebody would trade something for him, but if I couldn't get a deal done before the non-tender deadline, I'd non-tender him. He's not worth $3 Million and I'm guessing he'd get that in the last year of arb and frankly, KC is right, if the Reds are to upgrade the offense, Catcher is one of the places to do it. Even an average to below average bat is a huge upgrade in production. Mes hits lefty pitching well. Need a guy who hits well against RHP to make the tandem make more sense. Salty fits and he and Mes could probably platoon and bat 5th or 6th behind Bruce. I'd expect the position to combine for an OPS of around .775 with 25 HR with those two platooning.
    Yeah, definitely don't see Wieters as a fit.

    Career vL: .281/.344/.487
    Career vR: .244/.310/.393

    Personally, I think Mes is going to have a breakout year. But if we're looking for a platoon partner with Mes, he's definitely not it.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  4. #62
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Yeah, definitely don't see Wieters as a fit.

    Career vL: .281/.344/.487
    Career vR: .244/.310/.393

    Personally, I think Mes is going to have a breakout year. But if we're looking for a platoon partner with Mes, he's definitely not it.
    I have said this multiple times. What about Dinoer Navarro? I do not know what the market for him is, but he is a great switch hitting offensive catcher. Given the market for McCann and Ruiz, what might it cost to get Navarro? He is younger than Hanigan and I suspect that his contract last year was $1.75M. I do not know what he will command, but I would think that it is around the same price as Hanigan.
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

  5. #63
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Since when is Dioner Navarro a "great offensive catcher"?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  6. #64
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Since when is Dioner Navarro a "great offensive catcher"?
    Hanigan 33 years old (2013 - $2.05M, expected 2014 - $3M)

    2013 catcher stat ranks (given 250 PA - Hanigan had 260)

    .198 BA (17th)
    .306 OBP (13th)
    .261 SLG (18th)
    .567 OPS (17th)

    -0.3 WAR

    Navarro 29 years old (2013 - $1.75M, expected 2014 - ?)

    2013 catcher stat ranks (given 250 PA - Navarro had 266)

    .300 BA (2nd)
    .365 OBP (2nd)
    .492 SLG (1st)
    .856 OPS (1st)

    2.0 WAR
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
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  7. #65
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    .300 BA (2nd)
    .365 OBP (2nd)
    .492 SLG (1st)
    .856 OPS (1st)

    2.0 WAR
    Very impressive stats for Navarro. Curious where Reds would have finished this year with him replacing Hanigan.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  8. #66
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Navaro killed LH pitching

    .361/.451/.672/1.123

    He had a decent year against RH but his OPS was over 100 points above his average.

    All fine and dandy, if he was a good receiver, but he's not and that's likely why he's a Cub

  9. #67
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    Very impressive stats for Navarro. Curious where Reds would have finished this year with him replacing Hanigan.
    I think that it is amazing considering he as little PA as he did. Also, he had a 2.0 WAR with that little playing time. By comparison Votto, Bruce, Frazier and Choo were the only Reds to have WAR above 2.0. To get that from a player who is a backup would be huge for this team.

    FWIW, Mesoraco had a WAR of 0.2 (all stats from ESPN)
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
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  10. #68
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Navaro killed LH pitching

    .361/.451/.672/1.123

    He had a decent year against RH but his OPS was over 100 points above his average.

    All fine and dandy, if he was a good receiver, but he's not and that's likely why he's a Cub
    Navarro can throw quite well.

    He will get paid this off-season. Still would be within Reds' range financially, not huge, but will get pretty good money.

    Not sure he would want to be Mesoraco's backup. He's a Cub because he spent 2012 mostly in the Reds' minor leagues.

    Navarro hitting sixth would have helped the Reds offense this past season.

    He looked like a good player when the Reds called him up late in the 2012 season and eventually made the Reds post-season roster. He knows how to hit. Uses all fields, solid hitter. I'd have no problem with that acquisition if the Reds went in that direction.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-18-2013 at 01:02 PM.

  11. #69
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Navarro can throw quite well.

    He will get paid this off-season. Still would be within Reds' range financially, not huge, but will get pretty good money.

    Not sure he would want to be Mesoraco's backup. He's a Cub because he spent 2012 mostly in the Reds' minor leagues.

    Navarro hitting sixth would have helped the Reds offense this past season.

    He looked like a good player when the Reds called him up late in the 2012 season and eventually made the Reds post-season roster. He knows how to hit. Uses all fields, solid hitter. I'd have no problem with that acquisition if the Reds went in that direction.
    My question is how much do you expect he will get paid? We are likely going to give Hanigan $3M+ if we bring him back in 2014. I would rather that go to Navarro, especially given Mesoraco's health concerns. Back spasms and whatever else was wrong with him this past season have me concerned about his ability to be a 5 day a week starter next season.
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

  12. #70
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    We are likely going to give Hanigan $3M+ if we bring him back in 2014. I would rather that go to Navarro...
    Agreed. Surprised Dioner is still only 29.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  13. #71
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Meh, Navarro only had 266 PAs in 2013. He has a career .684 OPS and from 2009 to 2011 in ~750 PAs his OPS was below .600. I think he's a nice offensive catcher, above-average, but he's a poor receiver and is as likely to crater as he is to succeed.

    I really don't have a problem with the tandem of Mes and Hanigan being brought back in 2014. Mes has strong peripherals and Hanigan was banged up. I would prefer the efforts to improve be made in the outfield. I see six of the eight lineup spots as locked-in and that the acquisitions should play the outfield...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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  15. #72
    Moderator Gallen5862's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

    Reds Shopping Brandon Phillips

    By Zach Links [October 18 at 4:11pm CST]

    The Reds decided a month ago that they will shop Brandon Phillips this winter and intend to trade him, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). While there are several contending clubs with questions at second base to address this offseason, finding an attractive deal for Phillips could prove to be challenging.

    Phillips, 32, is coming off of a down season and is owed $50MM through the 2017 season. The second baseman slashed .261/.310/.396 in 606 plate appearances in 2013, down from his previous six seasons in Cincinnati where he hit .280/.329/.446. Despite having a healthy amount of money left on his deal, Phillips openly complained about his contract earlier this year after the club re-upped Joey Votto with a ten-year, $225MM deal.

    Teams with openings or potential openings at second base include the Dodgers, Yankees, and Orioles.

  16. #73
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Meh, Navarro only had 266 PAs in 2013. He has a career .684 OPS and from 2009 to 2011 in ~750 PAs his OPS was below .600. I think he's a nice offensive catcher, above-average, but he's a poor receiver and is as likely to crater as he is to succeed.

    I really don't have a problem with the tandem of Mes and Hanigan being brought back in 2014. Mes has strong peripherals and Hanigan was banged up. I would prefer the efforts to improve be made in the outfield. I see six of the eight lineup spots as locked-in and that the acquisitions should play the outfield...
    While I disagree rather totally with this overall approach to the Reds, agree that Navarro is a bit of a risk because historically he didn't hit that well.

    He may just be the kind of player who learns to use the whole field later in his career. He looked good as a Red for a short period and as a Cub. And he does throw well.

    The idea that these catchers, and Frazier, and Cozart, and Phillips will all hit sufficiently next year IMO is a dream. Funny, this post sees the Reds with six locked in positions. I see exactly two. Who knows?
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-18-2013 at 11:14 PM.

  17. #74
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    While I disagree rather totally with this overall approach to the Reds, agree that Navarro is a bit of a risk because historically he didn't hit that well.

    He may just be the kind of player who learns to use the whole field later in his career. He looked good as a Red for a short period and as a Cub. And he does throw well.

    The idea that these catchers, and Frazier, and Cozart, and Phillips will all hit sufficiently next year IMO is a dream.
    I agree with the need to make some upgrades, but I think the team needs to get established upgrades and not roll the dice on part timers who may be exposed in a full time role. If the Reds want to sign a better catcher, IMO it's either Salty or McCann. I wouldn't mind bringing back Navarro as the second catcher if the team sees the opportunity to make Mes a big part of a package for a bat for elsewhere, but adding Navarro as the primary upgrade at the position is aiming too low IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  18. #75
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    Re: 40 Man Roster - 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I agree with the need to make some upgrades, but I think the team needs to get established upgrades and not roll the dice on part timers who may be exposed in a full time role. If the Reds want to sign a better catcher, IMO it's either Salty or McCann. I wouldn't mind bringing back Navarro as the second catcher if the team sees the opportunity to make Mes a big part of a package for a bat for elsewhere, but adding Navarro as the primary upgrade at the position is aiming too low IMO.
    It depends on money, player availability, internal team views of own players.

    One approach is to say, well, sign two major guys (maybe Choo plus one) and improve the bench.

    Another approach is to platoon (generally speaking) a few positions. Get good platoon players for CF, 3B, SS, add a Navarro. Strict lefty/righty or otherwise. Or maybe LF, maybe 2B after a trade.

    I really have no opinion on this, there are several ways to approach it. But the objective is to be able to field a deeper lineup of average or above starting hitters every day.

    Not looking for the Big Red Machine, this team is pitching based. But just more solid contributing hitters whether regulars or platoons.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-18-2013 at 11:03 PM.


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