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View Poll Results: Do you want to see BP traded?

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  • Yes

    90 56.96%
  • No

    68 43.04%
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Thread: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

  1. #91
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I just don't get this. If Phillips is properly used, he's a 6 or 7 hole hitter (and a pedestrian one at that). Do you really think it will take $11 or $12 Million per year to do that? Do you think it will take 4 years at $50 Million? Trading Phillips and signing a reasonable facsimile should provide oodles of payflex. And dealing Phillips shouldn't be the only move of this type the Reds do this offseason.
    If properly used Phillips is a gold glove anchor of an elite defensive infield, an essential element to the success of the Reds pitching. It will take more than half of what Phillips is due in 2014 to get that, and eating up most of the saving from trading Phillips.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  3. #92
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    It saves the Reds nothing for 2013-14. In fact, he costs the Reds a few million more. It's nice to think ahead, but why downgrade the team now, just to save some money a few years from now?
    If the deal is taking Uggla and all his money straight-up, I completely agree the Reds should pass. If the Braves pitch in say $5 or $6 Million per each of the remaining two seasons, they should consider it. If the Reds get some other young cheap stuff that would allow them to dump other salaries, that could be better than getting Uggla's deal paid.

    How about Phillips and Broxton for Uggla and Jordan Walden with no money involved?
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #93
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    I'm fine with it. He's one of my all time favorite Reds but the dose has ran it's course.

    Then comment with what trade you would like to see happen. Maybe in this format too:

    1.) Dream Trade Scenario: based on who is available, I would say Phillips to Tampa Bay for Price (we throw in a prospect or two if need be) would be nice.

    2.) Possible Trade Scenario: Phillps to LA for Joc Pederson and Andre Ethier

    3.) Realistic Trade Scenario: Probably Phillips to Atlanta for Uggla like has been mentioned. It would be so Jocketty.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

  5. #94
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If the deal is taking Uggla and all his money straight-up, I completely agree the Reds should pass. If the Braves pitch in say $5 or $6 Million per each of the remaining two seasons, they should consider it. If the Reds get some other young cheap stuff that would allow them to dump other salaries, that could be better than getting Uggla's deal paid.

    How about Phillips and Broxton for Uggla and Jordan Walden with no money involved?
    How does Uggla help make us better? That is a garbage trade, at any salary. We need nothing of Uggla.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

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  7. #95
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    If properly used Phillips is a gold glove anchor of an elite defensive infield, an essential element to the success of the Reds pitching. It will take more than half of what Phillips is due in 2014 to get that, and eating up most of the saving from trading Phillips.
    Guess we disagree. I think Phillips is replaceable for a lot less, especially if what you are replacing is the Phillips we can expect from here forward and not the Phillips you see in the rearview mirror. The Reds will miss his defense, but they don't need the best defensive second baseman in the game to be a contender. They need to do something about other spots though and need money more than anything else to make that happen. A small downgrade at 2B is more than offset by the rest of what the reds get by moving on (and Infante, for example, is a fine defensive 2B).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #96
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    How does Uggla help make us better? That is a garbage trade, at any salary. We need nothing of Uggla.
    What makes the Reds better is the other stuff they can get by ridding themselves of the money owed to Phillips and Broxton. Look. I'd rather not have Uggla either, but I'd wager that he'll outhit Phillips in 2014.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  9. #97
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    What makes the Reds better is the other stuff they can get by ridding themselves of the money owed to Phillips and Broxton. Look. I'd rather not have Uggla either, but I'd wager that he'll outhit Phillips in 2014.
    Uggla didn't out hit BP in 2013. What makes you think he will next year?

    Ops+ last three seasons:

    Uggla

    107
    98
    83

    BP
    118
    99
    92
    Last edited by Raisor; 10-19-2013 at 09:56 PM.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  11. #98
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    I voted YES I would trade BP.

    It has nothing to do with his "SWAG" or any of that, it has to do with thinking it was one of a few bad contracts written by the Reds the last few years and I do not believe there is a chance he will play at that level.

    Then comment with what trade you would like to see happen. Maybe in this format too:

    1.) Dream Trade Scenario...Phillips to Tampa for Price

    2.) Possible Trade Scenario...Phillips to LA for any number of available players.

    3.) Realistic Trade Scenario...BP to ATL for Uggla and a better than average prospect...which I do not hate.

    Uggle is not the 2B he was or close to BP...he is a RH batter and his contract is up at the end of the season so...it gives a lot of payroll relief.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  12. #99
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan View Post
    I voted YES I would trade BP.

    It has nothing to do with his "SWAG" or any of that, it has to do with thinking it was one of a few bad contracts written by the Reds the last few years and I do not believe there is a chance he will play at that level.

    Then comment with what trade you would like to see happen. Maybe in this format too:

    1.) Dream Trade Scenario...Phillips to Tampa for Price

    2.) Possible Trade Scenario...Phillips to LA for any number of available players.

    3.) Realistic Trade Scenario...BP to ATL for Uggla and a better than average prospect...which I do not hate.

    Uggle is not the 2B he was or close to BP...he is a RH batter and his contract is up at the end of the season so...it gives a lot of payroll relief.
    Uggla's contract is not up at the end of the year. He's around wherever he ends up for a couple years.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  13. #100
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Yeah Uggla is signed until after the 2015 season.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  14. #101
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Fans are mirroring what they're getting in the local media, from what I can see from my vantage point outside the market. If there is a beat writer or a sports radio host or a local TV personality consistently talking up Joey Votto since he signed his LTC, I haven't run across them. What I'm reading and hearing in the Cincinnati media is a lot of criticism that he's not producing at the level of that contract.

    It's hard to fault casual fans for believing what they're told in the media.
    There probably are some people that are paying too much attention to the media. But, just because I don't like the contract doesn't mean that I'm one of those people.

    Quote Originally Posted by bengalsown View Post
    Meanwhile, mr. $225 million was an error machine, and he himself admitted that he never got things going offensively. That was obvious all year long to anyone watching.
    There are ALOT of teams that would've LOVED to have had an "off year" like Votto had from their 1st baseman.

    Votto's production has never been a problem, even in an "off year". His contract is completely different.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Uggla didn't out hit BP in 2013. What makes you think he will next year?

    Ops+ last three seasons:

    Uggla

    107
    98
    83

    BP
    118
    99
    92

    Not only is Uggla a bat that shouldn't be added to this offense but he's never been a good defender. The Reds would go from elite defense at 2nd to a liability. It doesn't matter who or what else is in the deal the Reds shouldn't say yes to it unless they KNOW that they have a 2nd deal set up to deal Uggla to another team.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  15. #102
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I just don't get this. If Phillips is properly used, he's a 6 or 7 hole hitter (and a pedestrian one at that). Do you really think it will take $11 or $12 Million per year to do that? Do you think it will take 4 years at $50 Million? Trading Phillips and signing a reasonable facsimile should provide oodles of payflex. And dealing Phillips shouldn't be the only move of this type the Reds do this offseason.
    Fangraphs has Phillips's value for last year at $13M, $17M the year before, and $25M the year before that. But those are averages, meaning you can beat it if you have a young player in a rookie salary structure (which we don't), but if you just go hunting for veteran free agents, you'll probably end up paying more to replace his production.

    I realize that it matters whether you see last year as a declining trend or just an off year. I think a little of both, but somebody posted before-and-after stats a while back from his hand injury that made me think he can bounce back a bit. I see him as a 2 to 3-win player for a few more years, then who knows? I'm sure by 2017 he'll be underperforming, but I just don't care about that many years into the future.

    I'm OK with trading him, but not OK with just a salary dump. You have to get a good return here that can replace at least a good portion of the lost production, or else don't make the move.

  16. #103
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    How does Uggla help make us better? That is a garbage trade, at any salary. We need nothing of Uggla.
    He'd make us better than Henry Rodriguez, who's your starting 2B if you trade Phillips.

  17. #104
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    When do we get to see the results?

  18. #105
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Do you want BP to be traded?

    Uggla hasn't had a good season since 2010. 2 of his last 3 years his OBP is terrible. Same with slugging. BA has been terrible 3 straight years. OPS+ below 100 2 of three years - just under 2012, just over in 2011, and horrid last year. He has always been a poor defender. He will walk, he does have power. Owed 13 million each in '14 and '15. He'll add to the strikeouts for those that care.

    A top prospect, the salary relief in the future and a 2012 Uggla might be a palatable return. A season like last year for Uggla and even if the prospect turns all lights out star on us it would be pretty disastrous. Looking at Uggla's career and the trending numbers, I don't think I wanna take that bet.
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