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Thread: Offseason Discussion

  1. #46
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.

    The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

    The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

    1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

    2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

    3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

    Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

    The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 10-24-2013 at 10:23 PM.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladeda View Post
    The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

    The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

    1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

    2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

    3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

    Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

    The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.
    Sending Phillips for Bautista saves 21 million overall. Bautista would only be here through 2015...
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 10-24-2013 at 10:25 PM.

  4. #48
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Plus you have to take into count how many outs he has made on plays that would have normally been hits
    Plus you have to take into account how many routine plays he tries to turn into gold glove plays to entertain the crowd!

  5. #49
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    Plus you have to take into account how many routine plays he tries to turn into gold glove plays to entertain the crowd!
    You can't put a price tag on swag

  6. #50
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladeda View Post
    The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

    The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

    1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

    2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

    3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

    Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

    The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJ View Post
    Sending Phillips for Bautista saves 21 million overall. Bautista would only be here through 2015...
    You're also forgetting YRod - look it up. He is still young for his level (and has been at every level) and has come on like gangbusters. He is tearing it up in Arizona. YRod has arrived on the prospect chart with Winker and Ervin. Then add Hamilton. 4 outfield prospects. Why trade for a guy with two years left? Well, if they can't sign Choo it is still two years before these guys are really ready for prime time, except Hamilton, perhaps, but he is a different breed - not the slugger we're talking about here. 2015 could then allow some PT play for Winker/Ervin/YRod or September callups and the best stay/one or two possibly dealt to fill holes, maybe one fails. I'm not saying Bautista is the best trade idea possible (much better for BP than for Bailey, imo) but it's not a bad one either.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 10-24-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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  7. #51
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Haha I'm so confused. I was the one that made the idea of Bailey and Soto for Bautista and quoting has gotten so messed up I can't understand some of the posts after that!

  8. #52
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Haha I'm so confused. I was the one that made the idea of Bailey and Soto for Bautista and quoting has gotten so messed up I can't understand some of the posts after that!
    Tried to fix the erroneous quoting- you are right - it was confusing.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  9. #53
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    What about dealing Phillips/Cueto to Toronto for Bautista/prospect? That forces us to move Chapman to the rotation, but will free up space to resign Choo and possibly Bailey? It leaves us without a 2nd baseman, but I honestly believe we can find a much cheaper option at 2B..We might not get the 100 RBIs from him, and he won't be as flashy with the glove, but we can find a solid replacement that would bat 7th or 8th in our lineup and can place respectable defense.

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  11. #54
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Not on board with trading Cueto. There is no guarantee Chapman works out in the rotation if he is moved there. It's also not likely the entire rotation will stay healthy all season. Since it seems Arroyo will be gone, I'd be worried to give up any of the other starters.

  12. #55
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    @LanceMcAlister: Joey Votto checks in to discuss Bryan Price tonight at 6:10 on Sports Talk #Reds

  13. #56
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladeda View Post
    The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

    The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

    1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

    2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

    3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

    Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

    The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.
    I agree with your line of thinking especially on Ervin and Winker but I think Bautista could be worth looking into. Not only does he have outfield experience, he had also played 3b. The jays are said to be looking for second base help, and all signs point to Phillips being on the block. The reds are looking for a right handed power bat to fill a position of need like LF and moreso 3b. If a deal could be made where Bautista and Phillips are the main pieces, it may give each club a part they are looking for.

  14. #57
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Zero View Post
    With Guerrero now off the market, I'd revise my strategy slightly. Here's my take:

    How about hooking up with the Orioles for a trade? I think they're looking for a 2B. Maybe Brandon Phillips for Nick Markakis, Eduardo Rodriguez, and $4 million?

    Markakis is coming off a down year and has been up and down for his whole career. He makes $4 million more than Phillips in 2014, which is why I have the Orioles kicking in that cash to make the impact to both teams' payrolls negligible. The good thing about Markakis is that he gets on base when he's right, and, more importantly, he's off the books after next season. I also have the Orioles kicking in Eduardo Rodriguez. He's a decent left handed SP prospect, but he's still at least a year away from the bigs.

    I think I'd then look to trade Bailey to the Rangers for Martin Perez, Joey Butler, and Rougned Odor. Perez isn't as good as Bailey, but he's under team control for a while and can step in immediately to fill out the rotation. Butler isn't a big power guy for a corner OF and is old for a prospect, but he's a RH OBP machine. He could take over LF once the Ludwick/Markakis platoon is off the books in 2015, and he immediately adds depth in case of injury in 2014. Odor is a still a ways away, but he could wind up being an elite level 2B prospect. I think this deal might hinge on Texas being able to sign Bailey to an extension since they'd be giving up a lot, but I think Bailey would definitely be receptive to a long term deal with a club in his home state.

    Finally, I'd use the money saved by dealing Bailey to sign Omar Infante and David Dejesus. Infante can play a solid 2B and will probably hit for good average. He isn't especially flashy and his other offensive skills leave something to be desired, but he gets the job done. Dejesus can back up all 3 OF positions and is a pretty good insurance policy in case Hamilton needs more seasoning.

    With these moves, the Reds would go into 2014 with the following lineup:

    CF: Hamilton/Dejesus
    2B: Infante
    1B: Votto
    RF: Bruce
    3B: Frazier
    LF: Markakis/Ludwick
    C: Mesoraco
    SS: Cozart

    SP: Latos
    SP: Cueto
    SP: Cingrani
    SP: Perez
    SP: Leake

    In 2015, Joey Butler replaces Markakis and hits in the second spot in the order. Both Eduardo Rodriguez and Robert Stephenson may also be ready to compete for rotation spots in 2015. This keeps the SP pipeline primed, which will hopefully translate into more post season appearances (and maybe even victories) over the next couple of years.

    Thoughts?
    Not a bad plan. I'd probably pass on Butler, and Perez may be hard to get. Maybe Odor and Luis Sardinas (future Reds MI) along with one of the bullpen excess (Scheppers?) in Texas with the idea of moving Chapman in to Bailey's spot. With Andrus and Profar, those MI prospects are blocked in Texas so them moving them makes sense. They probably would be unlikely to deal Perez.

    I like the Markakis and Dejesus ideas for fixing the OF though and Infante isn't that big a drop from Phillips and I think would come for a lot less per year and a shorter commitment. If not, there are other options for 2B.

    All that is left is getting a lefty bat to platoon with Mesoraco. Send Hanigan packing and maybe see if the Phillies would be a taker for Ludwick. Heisey could spell Markakis or Dejesus against LHP. That would free some cash for an AJ Pierzynski signing.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #58
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    If we are talking to the Orioles, how about package of Phillips and prospect(s) for Matt Wieters?

    Have heard that he may be available and he would look pretty good in our lineup.

    Thoughts?

  16. #59
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruceFan View Post
    If we are talking to the Orioles, how about package of Phillips and prospect(s) for Matt Wieters?

    Have heard that he may be available and he would look pretty good in our lineup.

    Thoughts?
    I'll pass. I think Mesoraco can give us similar production with regular at bats.

  17. #60
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    Re: Offseason Discussion

    Haven't seen it posted in the SD anywhere yet so... This was a tweet from Buster Olney this morning..

    Buster_ESPN: The Angels want pitching,and sources say they've indicated a willingness to other teams to trade Peter Bourjos or/and Mark Trumbo to get it.

    Now before you start bashing Trumbo, we all know about his stats.

    His career slash in 3 total years is .250/.299/.469/.768 with an average of 33 homers and 100 RBI.

    I used his career numbers because he's still young so I imagine he'll put up something next year that is better than what he did this past year, more similar to his career average.

    Obviously we have Ludwick, but I don't have much confidence in him at all next year. He's old and no way he'll put up numbers like he did in 2012, especially after this injury. The only number I see Ludwick besting Trumbo is OBP. I don't think the power will be there next year. Trumbo batting from the right side in GABP behind Votto would be something to look forward to. Probably looking at around 40 homers. Imagine him and Bruce in the same lineup with all those home runs.


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