"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Votto leads by example, it's really on the other players if they don't follow.
I think it was an ESPN the magazine article where Todd Frazier sounded amazed discussing his approach, declaring it was too hard for him or something similar, meanwhile I'm wondering how do you watch one of the best hitters in baseball every day and not consider his approach to hitting and try to apply it to your own game, at least a little bit.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
In 2009, Joey Votto made barely over $437,000. Still lots of money by "regular people" standards, but pocket change for big league stars. He hits the field and puts up a 156 OPS+ for the Reds, blossoming into their best star player and not a single Reds fan had anything negative to say about him. Whenever he'd come up to the plate in a big situation, the ovations were loud and thunderous. Sometimes he'd come through, and GABP would explode. Sometimes he wouldn't come through, and fans reacted with in an "aw shucks" kind of manner.
The following season, 2010, is much the same, except the ovations are even louder. Votto has a bit better season, he leads the Reds to their first playoff appearance in 15 years and he couldn't do a thing wrong.
Fast forward to 2013. He puts up the second highest on-base percentage of his career. His OPS+ of 154 is nearly identical to his 2009 figure. Not to mention he played in all 162 games and piled up 726 plate appearances. Just absolutely loads of production. You could say his power numbers are down, but I'll counter that offensive production is down across the league. You don't produce in a vacuum - you produce relative to your peers. Joey Votto in 2013, despite being blasted by a segment of the media and fan base, was a more productive hitter than Joey Votto in 2009 when he couldn't do a thing wrong.
But the only difference is a big contract with a lot more money. That's it. Now suddenly if he isn't money each and every plate appearance, he hears the wrath. The same thing has happened to other players. Once they get that contract and the high salary, certain segments of the media and fan base suddenly turn on the player. They're suddenly expected to be invincible, better than they ever were. They get blasted for being the same exact player and person that they were four years previously when no one batted an eye.
I know what the argument is: well he makes all this money so he should change, blah blah blah. That's hogwash, and we all know it. Let a star player who produces much the same as he's always produced be, and let that same guy be the same guy off the field that he's always been. Money or a big contract shouldn't change any of that.
Sometimes I wonder if certain Reds fans and certain members of the media wished that Votto would have just walked out the door via free agency. Maybe that's what Shin Soo Choo and Homer Bailey really need to do too. Because it's an absolute guarantee that if they stick around with a big time contract, the howling about their shortcomings and bad stretches in upcoming seasons will reach an all-time high.
Some people in the Reds media and some Reds fans just need to get over themselves.
Kevin Gregg and Jason Marquis brought back vivid memories of the Lost Decade.
Kevin Gregg: DFA'd May 11, 2015
Jason Marquis: DFA'd June 5, 2015
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"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Price likely will move Aroldis Chapman to the starting rotation, a move he advocated for last spring. That means the Reds' pitching staff will look a bit different -- it's been assumed for quite some time that free-agent starter Bronson Arroyo will be suiting up for a different team come April, and Tony Cingrani might find himself in the bullpen.
After an impressive 2013 season, free-agent outfielder Shin-Soo Choo is in a position to score a big contract, likely not with the Reds. And with Scott Boras as his agent, there's no doubt Choo's price tag will skyrocket. Long story short, the team could see Billy Hamilton patrolling the outfield full time.
But there will be fewer tangible changes, too. Price admitted in his news conference that some of Baker's situational decisions stymied him, a comment that will resonate with many armchair managers.
There will be changes. Because good enough isn't good enough for the Cincinnati club anymore. And whether or not you agree with the decision to hire Price, that fact in and of itself is commendable.
Last edited by Matt700wlw; 10-23-2013 at 08:12 AM.
Cyclone's entire post is just so, so good. Historically spot on, from my viewpoint of 42 years being a fan of Cincinnati sports teams.
As for Price, I thought the presser was awesome. He hits my sweet spot in terms of coming off as intelligent, but also self-aware that being intelligent isn't enough. I get the sense he knows the pitfalls of the position from the initial give and take, and I am really impressed with how the team is reacting to the news. All good things.
Now looking forward to seeing what he and Walt can come up with. Should be a really interesting off-season.
Exactly, junkhead. And it is for that reason, with Choo most likely gone, that I am concerned about the offense.
"Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013
I like Price hiring. I think that as soon as Dusty was let go they had their mind set on Price. I think it was the safe hire with the fanbase. I would of liked to seen them wait a little bit and see if Mattingly was available, but I also don't know if Price was being looked at by other teams and they needed to make a decision. Overall I like the hire tho!!!
ďIn the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.Ē - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"
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People are way over complicating this issue. The average fan doesn't look at/doesn't understand wRC+. The average fans looks at AVG, HR, RBI, and I'll give them enough credit to say they look at OPS. Votto got handed a truck load of money, of course expectations are going to go up. At the same time, his power numbers and RBIs totals dropped.
Look, Votto is a great player. If you would have told the Reds when they signed him to that contact he would drive in 73 runs a year and be the worst defensive first baseman in the majors, they wouldn't have signed him to that deal.
Votto had a down year. His down year is better than the vast majority of players good years, but he also gets paid way more money than the vast majority of players. You can't sit here and say money doesn't change things, becasue it does. When you're taking up that much money of your teams payroll, you're expected to produce at a certain level. If salary doesn't matter, why are the Reds looking to trade Phillips?
There's a middle ground here. I except Votto have a better year next year. Play better defense and yes drive in more runs. With that being said, I'm glad he's a Red and I have no problem with the contract he was given.
As the face of the franchise (and he is), it also wouldn't kill him to do an interview in a situation like yesterday. I don't care he didn't, but it's true.
I think Votto also has a "Plays Like Pete" problem with a large segment of the fans as well. Joey is, by all accounts, an incredibly hard and diligent worker that studies the art of hitting more than anyone else on the team, but he's perceived as "lazy" because he isn't out getting his uniform dirty on gameday.
24 Years and Counting...
Did Price say that some of Bakers situational moves were confusing, if he said that I did not see it, and if he said that I am impressed
Last edited by malcontent; 10-23-2013 at 10:00 AM.
Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi
He may be more inclined to use advanced stats he may not. We should be able to tell a few months into the season. But to those claiming excitement for the hire because he will manage more sabr friendly than Baker are premature. If anything his quotes would have you thinking otherwise.