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Thread: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

  1. #61
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    What about Ken Griffey Sr?
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

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  3. #62
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    No to any ex-Red as any coach. The farm system is full of old Reds players. Go ahead and look at the hitting stats through the entire system...they're awful. Coaching up and down the minors needs to be changed. We need to quit hiring people just because they played for the team 20-30 years ago and fans like them and instead hire people who know what they're doing.

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  5. #63
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    :lme:
    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    No to any ex-Red as any coach. The farm system is full of old Reds players. Go ahead and look at the hitting stats through the entire system...they're awful. Coaching up and down the minors needs to be changed. We need to quit hiring people just because they played for the team 20-30 years ago and fans like them and instead hire people who know what they're doing.
    Every single Reds fan should have to read this twice a day.

    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  7. #64
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    No to any ex-Red as any coach. The farm system is full of old Reds players. Go ahead and look at the hitting stats through the entire system...they're awful. Coaching up and down the minors needs to be changed. We need to quit hiring people just because they played for the team 20-30 years ago and fans like them and instead hire people who know what they're doing.
    I get the logic, but do you really think it's instruction? The team has either traded or graduated all the high offensive picks with Winker and Ervin remaining and being very promising looking bats. I think the player selection phase coupled with recent trades is where the system falls short offensively. The higher offensive pick guys that are left are mostly middle of the field, defense first types (Lamarre, Greene, Lohman, Hudson, etc.) and those guys were questionable bats to begin with. Lots of pitchers picked high and that's fine by me.

    I honestly have no idea who would make a good hitting coach and I really wonder how much difference it actually makes at the big league level. These guys are mostly what they are by the time they reach the big leagues.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #65
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Jose Canseco is available
    I'm sure he'd allow bigness to develop and dominate (if GABP is close enough to the earth's core).
    Founder and Ruling Elite of the Derrick Robinson Fan Club. Limited amount of memberships available.

  9. #66
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I'm sure your cat would make an excellent hitting coach, but can the Reds afford him?
    Speaking of cats, better keep 'em out of the clubhouse if Kevin Mitchell is going to be on the staff.

    Jason Giambi said last year he wouldn't retire to be a hitting coach... only a manager. By now, he might have realized that coaching hitters - which he knows a lot about - may be his quickest route to a managing gig.
    Last edited by cincinnati chili; 10-26-2013 at 05:49 PM.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  10. #67
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I get the logic, but do you really think it's instruction? The team has either traded or graduated all the high offensive picks with Winker and Ervin remaining and being very promising looking bats. I think the player selection phase coupled with recent trades is where the system falls short offensively. The higher offensive pick guys that are left are mostly middle of the field, defense first types (Lamarre, Greene, Lohman, Hudson, etc.) and those guys were questionable bats to begin with. Lots of pitchers picked high and that's fine by me.

    I honestly have no idea who would make a good hitting coach and I really wonder how much difference it actually makes at the big league level. These guys are mostly what they are by the time they reach the big leagues.
    The Reds system has been producing major leaguers at a pretty good clip, at least the high draft picks. But the hitters the Reds have lately put into the majors can basically fall into two categories:

    Category A) Votto, Bruce and Alonso

    Category B) Righty hitters with a low avg, low obp and some pop.

    Individual coaches don't matter as much as having an organizational hitting philosophy. Most of what a pitching coach does is fine tuning mechanics and helping hitters pick up on pitch recognition, studying opposing pitchers etc. But what does matter is having everyone in the organization on the same page.

    If I set the goals of the team, Reds players and prospects would have two things drilled into their heads: 1) You should have a goal of trying to see as many pitches as you can every at bat, especially early in the game 2) Do not, under any circumstances, make base running mistakes. Base running mistakes are akin to murder. Making a mistake on the base paths means your ass is on the bench the rest of the game.

    "Seeing as any pitches as possible" isn't to say getting a base on balls is the goal. Seeing a ton of pitches has been a strategy long before people knew the power of OBP. If the second time through the order everyone's been at the plate and has seen him throw about 7, 8, 9+ pitches, that gives hitters an advantage. Not only the obvious tiring the pitcher out and getting into their bullpen sooner, but getting a feel for how his stuff is working that day, how he mixes up his pitches etc. The more times you see a guy's delivery, the better you can time him. The more times you see a guys fastball/slider/changeup the easier it will be to hit.

    People have made a point about Price wanting everyone on the major league roster to be on the same page, everyone have the same goals etc. That's an awesome plan and I hope that this kind of hitting philosophy and strategy is part of the goals, but it needs to go further than that. Every coach and every instructor in the entire organization should be on board. There should be a meeting saying "This is how it's going to go. This is what we're going to drill into these guy's heads. They're going to hear the same things and get the same lesson at every single lever. If you don't agree with it, you can leave and we'll bring in someone who does."

    The goal is obviously to get guys to Cincinnati who can hit at a major league level. .260/.330, whatever. But by the time they get there they should already be on board with the way the MLB organization does things. I think that's why other teams seem like they can just bring guys in and plug them in on the major league roster and not skip a beat. It seems that more often than not we bring guys up from Louisville due to injury and they just seem lost. And I think the numbers at every level of the farm system show that.

    I really do think those two things will help drastically. It's harder to teach an old dog new tricks. Bringing it to the major league level will have a benefit for the team, even if it's not drastically, but pounding it into every guys head from the moment they first step foot on the field at Goodyear will pay dividends.

  11. #68
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Maybe. I just don't think the Reds have drafted the players to be successful hitters. No amount of coaching is going to make Zach Cozart, Devin Lohman or Ryan Lamarre a good hitter. Those guys are defense first guys and the organization knew it when they picked them. When Walt arrived the team had offense first guys like Dunn, Griffey, Keppinger, EdE and the like. The pitching was thin and the defense, outside of Phillips and Bruce, was non-existent. They set out to change that by drafting pitchers and good defenders instead of guys known for their bats. Several years of that philosophy is showing up. Time to swing back the other way a bit (and Winker and Ervin are a good start), but it's hard to blame the coaches when the players just haven't been there (and the ones who were like Alonso and Grandal were dealt away). The only guy who has been a disappointment offensively in the big leagues so far is Mesoraco and he started out as a poor hitter in the minor leagues. He became a hitting prospect through the organization working with him.

    I think drafting philosophy is more to blame for the dearth of bats in the system.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  13. #69
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    I understand there are guys who are never going to hit .300, but I do think that it's possible for Heisey, Cozart, Frazier etc. to see more pitches, and that in itself will make the offense better.
    Last edited by joshua; 10-26-2013 at 08:04 PM.

  14. #70
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    No to any ex-Red as any coach. The farm system is full of old Reds players. Go ahead and look at the hitting stats through the entire system...they're awful. Coaching up and down the minors needs to be changed. We need to quit hiring people just because they played for the team 20-30 years ago and fans like them and instead hire people who know what they're doing.
    I want to reiterate: Scott Hatteberg might be one of the few ex-Reds who I'd want telling the youngsters anything about hitting.

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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    I understand there are guys who are never going to hit .300, but I do think that it's possible for Heisey, Cozart, Frazier etc. to see more pitches, and that in itself will make the offense better.
    I agree with most of your earlier stuff. The thing about the those 3 along with Devin, is what I have been saying since the beginning of this year. They refuse to embrace the concept of going the other way. They do not even do much of hitting it up the middle as pitchers continue to work them away and farther away.
    Especially Frazier and Devin and most all of Hesiey. Frazier tries to go up the middle sometimes and Cozart got better at the end of the year as he was also not trying to pull everything but Hesiey and Devin do not know there is another part of the field other than LF.

  17. #72
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    I understand there are guys who are never going to hit .300, but I do think that it's possible for Heisey, Cozart, Frazier etc. to see more pitches, and that in itself will make the offense better.
    Those guys are all in their late 20s. No changing them now. Maybe when a kid is 19 or 20 coaching might do something. I think once a guy has gotten so far doing something his way, it's not likely he'll change the things that made him successful. Get 'em before they get to full season ball. The hitting coach isn't going to change Heisey, Frazier or Cozart.

    A decent hitting coach would probably be able to get a good image of these guys swing when they are going well and help them fix mechanical adjustments when they fall into a bad habit that makes the swing "off", but major overhauls or changes to approach probably aren't happening at the major league level. Any expectation of that just isn't realistic IMO.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-26-2013 at 09:10 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  19. #73
    Member Beatlessp's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Those guys are all in their late 20s. No changing them now.
    ummm...jose bautista and EE in Toronto both made massive changes to their swings and have been pretty doggone successful with it....and I think they may have been a tad older than 19/20 when they did it. Changing a swing is not that hard. you can do it in an offseason if you put your mind to it.

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  21. #74
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Joey Votto. And I'm not kidding.
    As hitting coach, he would be within his rights to unleash a torrent of f-bombs when teammates strike out.
    /r/reds

  22. #75
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: who should they bring in as hitting coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    No to any ex-Red as any coach. The farm system is full of old Reds players. Go ahead and look at the hitting stats through the entire system...they're awful. Coaching up and down the minors needs to be changed. We need to quit hiring people just because they played for the team 20-30 years ago and fans like them and instead hire people who know what they're doing.
    I'm fine with changing some coaches but I think the scouting needs to change too. They've clearly put an emphasis on pitching in recent drafts and it's showing.


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