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Thread: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

  1. #241
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon7 View Post
    JC dude, do you watch the games? He fails consistently in big situations. Take those JV blinders off.
    Votto has never hit walk off hits/HR's? Really...this is too funny...I cant stop laughing...

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  3. #242
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Ok. His 2013 stats.

    Late and Close Games: .231/.413/.407/.820

    Score within 1 run: .313/.441/.488/.928

    9th inning: 293/.500./.561/1.061

    High Leverage Situations: .263/.413/.449/.862

    RISP: .291/.477/.455/.932

    Men on base: .287/.458/.434/.892

    He still gets on base 45% of the time in nearly every single situation.

    When the CLEANUP HITTER behind him is hitting .261/.310/.396/.706, why would you want to pitch to a guy who has an 800/900 OPS in nearly every situation that's thrown at him?

    Put an actual threat behind Votto and his numbers will get even better next season.

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  5. #243
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    1. I think we should have expect Votto in 2013 to maintain similar production in high leverage situations, RISP, Men on Base, and late and close situations that he has produced throughout his career. That doesn't mean he has to replicate those numbers, just not drop between 50-124 points of BA (and similar amount in OPS) in 2013. You many think that dropping 50-124 points of BA is to be expected. I do not. I think those drops show that he performed poorly in comparison to what has done the rest of his career, and definitely worthy of further investigation.


    2. I listed BA with RISP as one of many stats that Votto in 2013 has performed poorly compared to his past performance. If I thought it was meaningful by itself, I would have only included it. If all Votto did was drop 50 points of BA with RISP, we wouldn't be having this debate, because it wouldn't have been meaningful.

    3. I'm not trusting anything. I'm simply stating facts and posting numbers. I think the numbers I posted justify further examination. I have not drawn any conclusions about why those numbers exist, how to change them, or even that they can be changed. Just that they need to be investigated further.

    4. See #2.

    5. I made no conclusion about Runs Created overall as a stat. I simply used logic to infer that Joey Votto's Runs Created stat for 2013 was less accurate than it usually is, because Votto's production was not spread evenly throughout all the situations he hit in. In high leverage situations, he performed 64 OPS points below his overall OPS. Logic dictates that his actual run production was lower than what Runs Created estimated it was. This doesn't invalidate Runs Created, it just is an example of where it wasn't as accurate as it normally is.
    FYI- If you're going to start down the road of claiming that you didn't say what you said, best practice isn't to just re-word what you said and say it again. You've been very clear about your conclusions that Votto should be expected to over-perform situationally, that small sample size data is relevant, and that RC isn't to be trusted as it applies to Joey Votto. Each conclusion is inaccurate. You can call them widgets for all I care. They're conclusions and we both know it.

    Also, it's quite obvious that you simply don't understand Runs Created as a measurement. And by that, I don't mean "fail to see subtle nuances". I mean you don't have any idea about it, how it's calculated, what it includes, or how to interpret the data. If you did, you'd know that all Votto's situational performance is already included in the calculation of the metric. In fact, the most complex formulas break situational performance into a subset; assigning different weights to that performance. If Votto performed poorly across any sample of data, that performance would lower his Runs Created appropriately; not artificially enhance it as you claim.

    jojo hinted at the above regarding your erroneous RC conclusion, but apparently wasn't direct enough.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  6. #244
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    That our front office prefers a sac-fly to a walk concerns me. Any energy spent on changing Joey Votto is time not spent on making guys who are actuallyfailing to do their jobs better.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  8. #245
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    That our front office prefers a sac-fly to a walk concerns me. Any energy spent on changing Joey Votto is time not spent on making guys who are actuallyfailing to do their jobs better.
    Well, we don't know that. The question asked of Jocketty was misleading and ill informed.

    Sometimes a sac fly is preferable to a walk and sometimes a walk is preferable to sac fly. It depends on the situation. Asking which one is preferable overall just isn't a fair question.

    All Jocketty has said so far is that this is an issue, that needs to be addressed. He is not happy with his number three hitter walking in key situations instead of driving the runs in. I think he's wrong about that, as long as you have decent hitters behind him.

    However, what Jocketty hasn't said is that he wants Votto to change. He has only said that he wants to have Price talk to Votto about it, and even said that one result of the talk could be moving Votto to a different spot in the batting order.

    I think there is reason to be concerned, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions just yet.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  10. #246
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    FYI- If you're going to start down the road of claiming that you didn't say what you said, best practice isn't to just re-word what you said and say it again. You've been very clear about your conclusions that Votto should be expected to over-perform situationally, that small sample size data is relevant, and that RC isn't to be trusted as it applies to Joey Votto. Each conclusion is inaccurate. You can call them widgets for all I care. They're conclusions and we both know it.

    Also, it's quite obvious that you simply don't understand Runs Created as a measurement. And by that, I don't mean "fail to see subtle nuances". I mean you don't have any idea about it, how it's calculated, what it includes, or how to interpret the data. If you did, you'd know that all Votto's situational performance is already included in the calculation of the metric. In fact, the most complex formulas break situational performance into a subset; assigning different weights to that performance. If Votto performed poorly across any sample of data, that performance would lower his Runs Created appropriately; not artificially enhance it as you claim.

    jojo hinted at the above regarding your erroneous RC conclusion, but apparently wasn't direct enough.
    First, thanks for the correction on RC. That must be new. When it was created, RC simply used a combination of OBP and SLG.

    Second, I very clearly explained my positions, and very clearly explained how they are different from the positions that you claim I hold. If you can't understand the differences, that's not my fault, the differences are clear as day.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  11. #247
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    Late and Close Games: .231/.413/.407/.820

    High Leverage Situations: .263/.413/.449/.862
    Just cherry picking here, but this stood out to me. Votto hit pretty poorly this past season in high leverage and close games. A .413 OBP is pretty impressive, but when I see that, and the games I watched, it appeared as if Votto was often giving up his at bat, taking the walk, and putting the onus on a lesser player to drive in runs.

    This year was the first time Votto actually talked about his goal at the plate being "to not make an out." It was also his worst "hitting" season since 2008, his first full year in the league. I don't know if he changed his approach a little this season. I don't know what the approach was if he had changed it. I know his power numbers decreased and he seemed more passive at the plate. I don't know about others, but as the season wore along, especially during the stretch run, I was waiting, almost hoping, for Votto to turn it on. For Votto to begin to do something special, something to life the team up. During the stretch run it looked like Votto was pressing, it looked like he was being beaten on pitches that you never thought would have happened.

    I think RBI is a flawed stat, I think it tells you part of the story, but has some serious flaws to it. At the start of the season I would have thought that Votto would have had his most productive RBI season this year because the #2 guy in the NL at getting on base was hitting two spots ahead of Votto in the order. The overall numbers tell me it was Votto's worst season since his rookie year. As a manager or GM I would want to know what changed. I would want to look further into his comments about "not getting going" this season. It isn't a bash Joey mission or blaiming the failure on Joey, its about getting him back to his .950-1.000 OPS self. Its about getting him back to the point where he was going to set the record for 2b in a year. Its about getting the monster back in the middle of the order.

  12. #248
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    With all the problems that many of the players on this team have offensively, the fact the Reds think that Joey Votto is one of them is beyond disturbing. Trying to change his approach is going to backfire, in a huge way.

    The funny thing is that with all of these interviews with Walt, I've never once heard him acknowledge the crap job he did in assembling parts of the 2013 team.

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  14. #249
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    To be fair, Walt was specifically asked about Votto and his approach both times, and he gave an honest answer. It's not like saying this is what he considers important. We have no idea how important Jocketty thinks this is, or how much time and effort he will will place into it.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #250
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    With all the problems that many of the players on this team have offensively, the fact the Reds think that Joey Votto is one of them is beyond disturbing. Trying to change his approach is going to backfire, in a huge way.

    The funny thing is that with all of these interviews with Walt, I've never once heard him acknowledge the crap job he did in assembling parts of the 2013 team.
    Walt assembled a team that won 90 games last season (pythag of 93). A team who had the top two guys on the league at getting on base as well as a team that ranked second in the NL in ERA+. Quite frankly I think Walt knows what he is doing and did a good job of it last season.

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  17. #251
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    The funny thing is that with all of these interviews with Walt, I've never once heard him acknowledge the crap job he did in assembling parts of the 2013 team.
    They competed for the best record in baseball the entire season, until the final week. I don't think the parts were the problem.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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  19. #252
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    With all the problems that many of the players on this team have offensively, the fact the Reds think that Joey Votto is one of them is beyond disturbing. Trying to change his approach is going to backfire, in a huge way.

    The funny thing is that with all of these interviews with Walt, I've never once heard him acknowledge the crap job he did in assembling parts of the 2013 team.


    My thought (hope?) on all of this changing of Votto is little more than answering the off base comments from the interviewer.

    That said would they like more counting stats from Votto? Sure. Are they going to overhaul their best player? I hope not, and don't think that's what they mean.

  20. #253
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    That our front office prefers a sac-fly to a walk concerns me.
    This is not factual at all, don't believe Walt's answer was as black and white as you are making it out to be.

    I'm sure there are some situations where they would prefer a sac fly over a walk. But they/Walt would not say that all the time. No way no how. There's no way Walt thinks a sac fly with men on 2nd and 3rd and no outs in the 1st is better than a walk. But, there is no way Joey should think that a walk in the B9 of a tie game with 2 men on is better than a sac fly, and I'm sure he doesn't.
    Last edited by TOBTTReds; 10-25-2013 at 02:50 PM.

  21. #254
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Joey Votto was 10th in the league with 6 sacrifice flies. Yet another category where being in the top 10 in the league isn't good enough, for the crazies.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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  23. #255
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    Re: Walt interview (with Cunningham)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    With all the problems that many of the players on this team have offensively, the fact the Reds think that Joey Votto is one of them is beyond disturbing. Trying to change his approach is going to backfire, in a huge way.
    Walt will give him a choice. He can keep his approach and bat second, or make minor changes and hit third. That's how I read his quote.


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