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Thread: Phillips to KC???

  1. #46
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    It's looking like Phillips has worn out his welcome with upper management and ownership. Its looking like reconciliation is out of the picture. Now for a possible return...I think the reds should explore legitimate major league help as a return in a Phillips deal even if they have to pair something up with him before they consider trading him for prospects to free up money for choo.

    I think the reds should approach this offseason under the assumption that choo will not return. Make the team better with or without him there. In the end if he resigns in Cincinnati, you make a spot for a bat like that, if he does not, then the team is better anyway.

    One senerio that is plausible would be Phillips and maybe another player or prospect to Toronto for Bautista. He seems to have fallen out of favor there, and is what the reds could use. Right handed, power, nice OBP, plays LF and 3b, would go a long way to replace Choos production.

    I just feel like if we just let Phillips go for prospects in the hope choo can be retained, then we may be left SOL if choo signs elsewhere. Now if choo signs first, then try to nab some prospects.

    Ok so for a mega pipe dream trade idea

    To Mets:
    Cueto
    Chapman
    Phillips
    Frazier

    To reds:
    Wright
    Murphy
    A prospect

    Resign Bronson and find a closer. There are a lot in the market this winter.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJ View Post
    Choo is not out yet. There is definitely a chance we get him back.
    How do you see that? His agent is going to want a 5-7 year deal in the $12-15 million a year deal and he will get that from either the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets or Cubs and Reds can't and shouldn't pay that kind of money.

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    Reds&BuckeyeGuy (10-29-2013)

  5. #48
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Exactly "whom" would take on the contract of Brandon? It's a huge overpayment on a player on the downside of his career? The ONLY way I see us dealing Brandon is in exchange for another "bad contract" aka Uggla and really who wants that? The Reds are stuck with Brandon, and we have to hope that new leadership in the managers office will correct the issues.

  6. #49
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Exactly "whom" would take on the contract of Brandon? It's a huge overpayment on a player on the downside of his career? The ONLY way I see us dealing Brandon is in exchange for another "bad contract" aka Uggla and really who wants that? The Reds are stuck with Brandon, and we have to hope that new leadership in the managers office will correct the issues.
    Exactly what I thought as well. I can see why they want to get rid of BP, but lets not dig ourselves in a hole trying to satisfy their egos. Put him on strict probation and tell him if he says anything wrong to the public (i.e. saying they all choked, when that was the whole case) he will be put on the trade block to the worst team in MLB or something. Uggla, I think, would be a huge downgrade. If we can get that prospect everyone seems to like (sorry, don't follow AAA or AA baseball, so don't know anything about him), i guess I would be fine with it. because we all know his contract is pretty bad, but not horrid.

  7. #50
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Going back to what DC actually said, I still think the Reds are looking for a landing spot where they don't have to take back money. They need payflex to either sign Choo or replace BP at 2b, maybe even both. The actual return in the trade is secondary to me.
    RALLY CAPS!

  8. #51
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    What some of you don't see is that the whole thing with Phillips isn't just the off the field and ego thing. His contract is just terrible and its gonna hurt the organization in a few years.

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    Edd Roush (10-30-2013), joshua (10-31-2013), Mario-Rijo (11-05-2013), mth123 (10-29-2013)

  10. #52
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post

    Ok so for a mega pipe dream trade idea

    To Mets:
    Cueto
    Chapman
    Phillips
    Frazier

    To reds:
    Wright
    Murphy
    A prospect

    Resign Bronson and find a closer. There are a lot in the market this winter.
    Whoa... sending out 4 core players from a 90 win team would definitely qualify under "pipe dream"!

  11. #53
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Phillips won another Gold Glove.

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    marcshoe (10-30-2013)

  13. #54
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Whoa... sending out 4 core players from a 90 win team would definitely qualify under "pipe dream"!
    Definitely. But looking at it cueto wasn't part of the core, he was hurt most of the year. The staff can do well without him. Wright is worlds better than Frazier, so it's an upgrade. Murphy's peripheral offensive numbers are better than Phillips, so despite the loss in D, the offense is upped. Chapman would be a loss, but it's offset salary, and the closer market is pretty good this year in the FA market. It's probably a bit of an overpay, but I don't think it's as lopsided as it appears at first glance, and would help both teams IMO. Reds get a high OBP right handed bat, and a second basemen that is solid offensively while losing a poor contract in Phillips, a guy who is marginal in Frazier, a number one that IMO has peaked and has an injury history. Losing chapman would hurt, but you have to give to receive. The mets get a closer for the injured Parnell, a starter for the injured Harvey, a major league third basemen to cover the spot, and a huge defensive upgrade at second. In the end the reds would basically keep the same rotation as most of 2013 with Stephenson in the wings, would have a better offense than 2013, and realky the only acquisition that they'd need after that is a closer.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 10-29-2013 at 10:46 PM.

  14. #55
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    The only problem I see is that you underestimate the hit to the pitching. The Reds are losing Arroyo and will not be able to sign Bailey (I really think they have no chance of keeping him after 2014) this would send out Cueto and Chapman as well. That's 4 of the better pitchers gone by the end of 2014 minimum with 2 replacements - Cingrani and Stephenson. Even 1 injury to anyone left and its over. I'd do this deal BUT - only after I a/signed Arroyo back for a couple years and/or acquired a young arm or two for Bailey to potentially fill those holes. The closer I'm not so worried about - it can be filled in house.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  15. #56
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Definitely. But looking at it cueto wasn't part of the core, he was hurt most of the year. The staff can do well without him. Wright is worlds better than Frazier, so it's an upgrade. Murphy's peripheral offensive numbers are better than Phillips, so despite the loss in D, the offense is upped. Chapman would be a loss, but it's offset salary, and the closer market is pretty good this year in the FA market. It's probably a bit of an overpay, but I don't think it's as lopsided as it appears at first glance, and would help both teams IMO. Reds get a high OBP right handed bat, and a second basemen that is solid offensively while losing a poor contract in Phillips, a guy who is marginal in Frazier, a number one that IMO has peaked and has an injury history. Losing chapman would hurt, but you have to give to receive. The mets get a closer for the injured Parnell, a starter for the injured Harvey, a major league third basemen to cover the spot, and a huge defensive upgrade at second. In the end the reds would basically keep the same rotation as most of 2013 with Stephenson in the wings, would have a better offense than 2013, and realky the only acquisition that they'd need after that is a closer.
    Ok here is the problem. Wright is going to be a $25 million a year player. Murphy is going to make as much if not more than Phillips, probably around $15 million a year, and then the Reds are going to lose a #1 starter in Cueto, and either a starter or top line closer in Chapman.

    The amount of money they will be paying Wright and Murphy then means they can't afford to resign Choo, they basically get Bailey for one more year then can't afford him, and they can't tender Arroyo because unless someone else wants him, they can't afford him, they can't afford to extend Latos, and they are pretty much strapped for cash on signing anyone.

    That deal would kill the Reds for the future.

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  17. #57
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Really good points Lew. I didn't even consider Wright and Murphy salary wise and that is what is so hard about this - you have to think about the money. Some deals look great until you stop and think of all the ramifications.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  18. #58
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Something else I would like to point out, is if the Reds don't think guys like Heisey or Robinson are the answer in left field, they need to trade them off. Not just for the betterment of the Reds, but so guys like Heisey and Robinson can have a chance to play somewhere else. I hate when teams have guys on their bench like these two, but then feel like they are stuck in a corner and go out and sign aged veterans like Ludwick and start them instead.

  19. #59
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    Like I said mega pipe dream. Probably not realistic. But after that trade choo would no longer be a consideration. Wright a full year of ludwick and Murphy would take up the offensive slack. Yes the pitching takes a hit, but I really don't think you're losing much in terms of cueto. He seems to be constantly hurt, never really has been a big game guy, and his potential has peaked even if healthy. Frazier is nothing special enough said. Phillips by most accounts is on his last chance if not beyond it with ownership. I've gone on record before as saying I do not want chapman traded but in a deal such as this I think it helps make the team better. As far as future considerations, the deal also included a prospect from the mets. If by including chapman we could get a guy from their farm like syndergaard or montero, we'd have future pitching depth. In 2014 we'd be running the same roatation out as in 2013 but with Stephenson in the wings as well as a pitching prospect from the mets. We may not have to go after arroyo. While he eats innings there are many other younger starting options on the market. This years FA closers market seems to be deep, so replacing chapman at the back of the pen while difficult wouldn't be impossible. As far as money. Hamilton cozart and Mes would still be starting, and they will not be bank breaking expensive. After 2014 ludwick comes off the books and would most likely be replaced with an Ervin winker or YRod so those are cheaper options. Also in our farm system we have Stephenson, Lorenzen, and deeper back travieso plus a hypothetical mets prospect from the trade you can forget Lively, Rogers and the chance of corcino bouncing back. On top of that, there'd be a chance of extending Latos or bailey. Put that together with future drafts or signing and the pitching looks like itd remain solid to me. To top it off our minor league system is flush with out fielders. Any if them pan out, then Bruce may be expendable in a trade for pitching, or the prospects themselves could. So in the end, would that idea be a pipe dream? Yeah sure big time, but would it cause the reds to be out of pitching or money for the future? Not so much.

  20. #60
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    Re: Phillips to KC???

    BP 11million
    Frazier .5 million
    Cueto 10 million
    Chapman 3 million

    Wright 20 million
    Murphy 3* 2013

    24.5 reds players
    23 mets players

    Murphy's salary will go up, but so will chapman Frazier and Phillips. The monetary considerations seem near even.


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