Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Just a comparison of their approaches.

    O-Swing%: The percentage of pitches a batter swings at outside the strike zone.
    Z-Swing%: The percentage of pitches a batter swings at inside the strike zone.
    Swing%: The overall percentage of pitches a batter swings at.
    Zone%: The overall percentage of pitches a batter sees inside the strike zone.

    Miguel Cabrera



    Joey Votto





    Last edited by junkhead; 10-24-2013 at 09:48 AM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,542

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Do you mind explaining what the O sing, Z Swing % mean or give a link to where they are defined?

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    287

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    I just don't understand why this matters. All this proves is that they have different approaches at the plate. Nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing here that indicates that Votto would be better if he swung at more pitches in the zone or that Cabrera would be worse if he didn't.

    Votto is a great player. He was still a great player in 2013 even though he wasn't quite what some people wanted him to be.

    Comparing Joey's 2010 to his 2013 would likely be much more meaningful.
    Last edited by Alpha Zero; 10-24-2013 at 09:45 AM.

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Do you mind explaining what the O sing, Z Swing % mean or give a link to where they are defined?
    O-Swing%: The percentage of pitches a batter swings at outside the strike zone.

    Z-Swing%: The percentage of pitches a batter swings at inside the strike zone.

    Swing%: The overall percentage of pitches a batter swings at.

    O-Contact%: The percentage of pitches a batter makes contact with outside the strike zone when swinging the bat.

    Z-Contact%: The percentage of pitches a batter makes contact with inside the strike zone when swinging the bat.

    Contact%: The overall percentage of a batter makes contact with when swinging the bat.

    Zone%: The overall percentage of pitches a batter sees inside the strike zone.

  6. #5
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,968

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Other than academic interest I am not sure what this points out. Votto is Votto. Cabrera is Cabrera. This is pointless. JV will never be MC and vice versa.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Zero View Post
    I just don't understand why this matters. All this proves is that they have different approaches at the plate. Nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing here that indicates that Votto would be better if he swung at more pitches in the zone or that Cabrera would be worse if he didn't.

    Votto is a great player. He was still a great player in 2013 even though he wasn't quite what some people wanted him to be.

    Comparing Joey's 2010 to his 2013 would likely be much more meaningful.
    Well, itís just for fun.

  8. #7
    Newbie Rock of Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Toshi Station
    Posts
    147

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    i get that these types of things are just for fun, but can you imagine how players of the past would get picked apart? Ted Williams, the last player to hit .400 never swung a low and outside pitch. He said he knew even if he did hit it, it was not going to be a productive swing. Would we be telling him to expand his strike zone?

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Zero View Post
    Comparing Joey's 2010 to his 2013 would likely be much more meaningful.

  10. #9
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,968

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Well, itís just for fun.
    Like I said, as an academic thing its interesting enough. I just don't see anything to really take from it. But, I do enjoy the charts and stats you dig up junkhead, so don't take it as a big criticism or anything.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  11. #10
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,169

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock of Truth View Post
    i get that these types of things are just for fun, but can you imagine how players of the past would get picked apart? Ted Williams, the last player to hit .400 never swung a low and outside pitch. He said he knew even if he did hit it, it was not going to be a productive swing. Would we be telling him to expand his strike zone?
    The Boston baseball writers made a career out of it, count on all the hitting coaches at home to do it for Votto

  12. Likes:

    Big Klu (10-25-2013), Larkin Fan (10-24-2013)

  13. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,169

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Next up compare Roy Cullenbine and Shawon Dunston

  14. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,347

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock of Truth View Post
    i get that these types of things are just for fun, but can you imagine how players of the past would get picked apart? Ted Williams, the last player to hit .400 never swung a low and outside pitch. He said he knew even if he did hit it, it was not going to be a productive swing. Would we be telling him to expand his strike zone?
    Ted Williams was doing these analyses on himself thirty years before Bill James invented baseball. Williams was probably the most intellectual, analytical hitter out there. If he found a way to change his approach, he probably did it.

  15. Likes:

    wolfboy (10-24-2013)

  16. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cincy
    Posts
    1,066

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock of Truth View Post
    i get that these types of things are just for fun, but can you imagine how players of the past would get picked apart? Ted Williams, the last player to hit .400 never swung a low and outside pitch. He said he knew even if he did hit it, it was not going to be a productive swing. Would we be telling him to expand his strike zone?
    I understand your point, but if he won the MVP swinging at it, then stopped, then had worse seasons... it would have been understandable to at least ask the question.

  17. #14
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,169

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    Ted Williams was doing these analyses on himself thirty years before Bill James invented baseball. Williams was probably the most intellectual, analytical hitter out there. If he found a way to change his approach, he probably did it.
    And even before Williams was born other guys were doing it as shown in F.C. Lane's Batting

  18. #15
    Member GADawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Athens, Georgia
    Posts
    1,143

    Re: Joey Votto Vs. Miguel Cabrera

    i'm sure someone will point out that this belongs somewhere else but speaking of comparisons I keep wondering why McCutcheon is the front runner for the MVP and Votto is barely mentioned....looking at their raw numbers they weren't all that different


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25