Turn Off Ads?

View Poll Results: How confident are you in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward?

Voters
108. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am confident in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward.

    86 79.63%
  • I am not confident in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward.

    22 20.37%
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 78

Thread: Walt Jocketty

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    532

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I voted not confident... but that doesn't mean I'm hoping for him to leave or am rooting against him.

    Justification: I believe he has been ham strung by Castellini, so this has more to do with the entire front office than Jocketty himself. Over the past few years they have executed a half-hearted "win now" attitude and 2014 might look ugly for the Reds. Reasons:

    1. Even with some guys leaving the Payroll, the payroll is going to be stressed with the Arb eligible guys. At least one of the long term contracts is starting to look albatross like. I am pessimistic that Castellini will increase the payroll enough to give Jocketty what he needs to upgrade offensive production in the outfield, maintain the high level of production in Center, and to build a better bench.

    2. Depleted farm for 2014 season. Outside of BH... there aren't really aren't whole lot of options down there that are ready to be promoted to help the team, either as an upgrade to the bench or to upgrade position players. Because of number 1... I'm afraid that the Farm for 2015 and beyond will look like the Farm for 2014.

    All of this can change with how Jocketty handles the Hot Stove. He has some very valuable pieces (Latos, Bailey, Chapman, Leake, Hamilton) that can be moved now (not all of them, just one or two) to upgrade the Red's chances at making a run for the division title, without sabotaging them in other areas or depleting the farm further. Personally I think Chapman and Hamilton are the pieces that should be considered. Just my opinion though.

    By my count I have the most to gain from my pessimism... if I'm right... it's a win.... if I'm wrong... then I get to be pleasantly surprised.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    7,440

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    However there is a reason he was pushed out of St. Louis and the team has gotten better since he left.
    Ehh...I mean they got better after a bad final year for Walt, but his success before that was equal to and in some instances (winning 100+ games in two consecutive seasons) greater than Mozeliak's, and the Cardinals have already gained from and taken advantage of the new Wild Card rules (as well as an epic Braves collapse the year before in 2011) that weren't in existence when Walt departed.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  4. Likes:

    MattyHo4Life (10-27-2013), REDREAD (10-25-2013)

  5. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    992

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Ehh...I mean they got better after a bad final year for Walt, but his success before that was equal to and in some instances (winning 100+ games in two consecutive seasons) greater than Mozeliak's, and the Cardinals have already gained from and taken advantage of the new Wild Card rules (as well as an epic Braves collapse the year before in 2011) that weren't in existence when Walt departed.
    His last 5 years the Cardinals farm system ranked:

    30th, 28th, 28th, 30th, 21st, 27th from 2002-2007.

  6. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Flipadelphia
    Posts
    5,037

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    His last 5 years the Cardinals farm system ranked:

    30th, 28th, 28th, 30th, 21st, 27th from 2002-2007.


    The guys teams just win. He knows how to build a winner, he helped the Reds get to the playoffs.

    While the farm has taken a hit, none of the players he has traded have gone on to be a star someplace else.

  7. #20
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,826

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Bad year for Walt aside from the Choo trade, but he has a good track record and I think this will be an anomaly.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  8. #21
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,577

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    Also next season Jason Motte makes more than any Reds relievers. No Front Office is without moves that did not work out.
    Motte and Broxton will make the same in 2014.

    Also, Motte was going to be their closer (and not an expensive one either). Since the Reds hadn't committed to Chapman being a starting pitcher Broxton became a set up guy (that becomes more expensive the more he weighs). Both missed time in 2013 and are recovering from injuries. If neither pitches for their club again the Cards would be out $12M. Meanwhile, the Reds would be out $19M (considering Broxton only pitched a 1/2 seasons worth of relief innings in 2013).

    The Cards committed less years and less money (thus less risk). Since Tommy John surgery has become routine Motte could be pitching again by Memorial Day. How many more DL stints do you think a 300+ pound Broxton will have while he's a Red?

    The Cards paid a fair price on a 2 year contract for a closer coming off a good year. Two years meant he didn't give up any free agent years but the Cards also limited their financial committment and risk.

    The Reds resigned a set up guy with a weight problem to a contract that gave him more years and more $.

    Neither contract has worked out as hoped so far. But, it's a little harder to defend Broxton's contract.



    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Sure they would have.
    Cards traded for Rpzensenski or whatever his name was recently (and gave up a starting CF) and then soured on him just this year when he had a rough start.. Rpzensenski was banished to the minors then traded to Cleveland where he flourished. Imagine if something like that happened on the Reds. Plenty of venom directed at management for something like that.
    Rzepczynski was only 1 player in that 8 player deal. They also got Edwin Jackson for the rest of 2011 and kept Rzepczynski for 2 years. So, it definitely wasn't like they gave up a starting centerfielder just for a reliever they turned around and got rid of.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 10-25-2013 at 10:35 AM.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  9. Likes:

    Revering4Blue (10-25-2013)

  10. #22
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,577

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Zero View Post
    Walt's a pretty good GM. He isn't the best, but he's probably above average. He has made some fantastic acquisitions (Choo, Latos, Chapman, Marshall, etc.), and he has drafted quite well. He has made some boneheaded moves (Broxton, Ludwick, etc.), but so far the good has outweighed the bad. He rarely gets a steal when trading but by the same token, he doesn't often overpay in deals either. He's got a steady hand, and I think he's a solid GM for a contending team.
    While Marshall did have a good 2012 he only pitched 10.1 innings this year, the first year of a 3 year/$16.5M contract. The Reds gave up Travis Wood, Ronald Torreyes, and Dave Sappelt to get him. That's not a 'fantastic' acquisition to me.

    Also, I don't think he has that much to do with the drafts and Walt does overpay quite a bit, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Ludwick.. Ok.. you let Ludwick walk. Now you have to find another LF that can hit cleanup for very little money (Ludwick's deal is backloaded).. I guess you'd have to be prepared to trade a top prospect or go fishing for a rehab project like Jason Bay. Ludwick was a good signing, he just got hurt. It's fair to criticize Walt for not making a move to fix LF after Ludwick got hurt, but Ludwick almost OPSed 900 in 2012.. Why wouldn't you want to bring a guy like that back?
    I really doubt the Reds are going to eat $14M.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  11. #23
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    917

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Motte and Broxton will make the same in 2014.
    What do you see their salaries as? I see 7.5 and 7.

  12. #24
    Member powersackers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,443

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Vote no confidence. Not blocking the trade of Marlon Byrd was inexcusable.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  13. #25
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,577

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    What do you see their salaries as? I see 7.5 and 7.
    I see that Motte is going to make $7M in 2014, the same as Broxton. Motte WAS paid a signing bonus of $1M but since that was already paid I thought that would count towards 2013, not split over both years.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 10-27-2013 at 04:48 AM.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  14. #26
    Member joshua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,046

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    This is a make or break year for Walt, in my opinion. If Jocketty doesn't improve the team, and they perform worse in 2014 than they did this year, Price is going to get a lot of undue heat and criticism from the local media and the more vocal part of the fanbase.

    Some of the contracts he's handed out have been mind bogglingly stupid, but nothing that's completely broken the team (at least not yet). I guess we'll see what he can do this year.

    But, if he tries to fill holes by signing former Cardinal fodder, I'll probably have a nervous breakdown before the season even starts.

  15. #27
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    columbus,ohio
    Posts
    2,223

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    It's unbelievable to me that anyone would disapprove of a GM that consistently builds teams that have legitimate world series hopes and are usually the favorite to win their division. I don't agree with every move Walt makes but I do believe that in a world that everything works out the way it's supposed to the Reds would still be playing baseball.

    How many games did you think the Reds would win this year? How about last year or the year before? If you find yourself guessing around 90 games every year then you have to admit the GM is doing his job. Any GM that runs a team that can and usually does win 90 games is doing things right. I believe anything above winning consistently is on the players and coaches. This past year Walt put together a team that won 90 games in their sleep while also often being shorthanded because of injuries. Walt and Reds will put a team together capable of repeating that feat again. Lets just hope for a little better luck and a lot more competitive fire.

  16. Likes:

    jimbo (10-27-2013), PepperJack (10-27-2013), REDREAD (10-28-2013)

  17. #28
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,004

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I think Walt has been excellent. The Reds are one of the 5 or 6 best teams in baseball. It's just that excellent isn't good enough to bring perennial WS runs to a mid-market team. You have to be near perfect. The one (and only one) thing I miss about WK was that he was a great dumpster diver. Walt doesn't do that as well. When he's desperate (Ludwick) or signing low-level players (Hannahan, Izturis) he strikes out a lot. That's marginal stuff but maybe enough to make the difference between playoff team and championship team. If I was Castellini I would bring in a small-market, sabermetrics guy to serve as an assistant GM.

  18. #29
    Member Crosley68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    955

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I actually am shocked to find that I myself voted "not confident". I have always been a vocal supporter of Walt to friends and fellow Reds fans, BUT I feel that this year will be forever known as the LOST YEAR for the lack of action to obvious team shortcomings. Was he unable or unwilling to pull the trigger? We may never know but the inaction for whatever reason has had me lose confidence in his ability.

    With that being said, he may have a great off-season (the Price hire is one great move IMO) and regain my confidence again, but since the poll is asking for my feelings now, then I suppose that is the deciding factor in my vote.
    Let's play two!!!

  19. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    532

    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    It's unbelievable to me that anyone would disapprove of a GM that consistently builds teams that have legitimate world series hopes and are usually the favorite to win their division. I don't agree with every move Walt makes but I do believe that in a world that everything works out the way it's supposed to the Reds would still be playing baseball.
    I voted that way because although he is building good teams, it's an unsustainable model for a small mid market team. There are holes in the field right now and almost all of the solutions will come from trading away talent for other talent to FA signings. There isn't enough coming up through the pipeline.

    This off season will be his most difficult, and aside from Castellini bumping payroll I just not sure Walt can fill the holes out there in a way that doesn't compromise the Reds future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kpresidente View Post
    The one (and only one) thing I miss about WK was that he was a great dumpster diver. Walt doesn't do that as well. When he's desperate (Ludwick) or signing low-level players (Hannahan, Izturis) he strikes out a lot. That's marginal stuff but maybe enough to make the difference between playoff team and championship team. If I was Castellini I would bring in a small-market, sabermetrics guy to serve as an assistant GM.
    This is another issue I have. Where Walt is now is starting to shape up like his STL departure. DeWitt said numerous times over the year that the model they implemented couldn't be sustained because it depletes the farm and relies too heavily on signing FA in a market they can't afford too.

    What was DeWitts next move? He hired Lunhow as the head of recruiting, procurement, and scouting. Who was Lunhow? A non-baseball guy who was sharp with using numbers to define value of players for recruiting purposes as well as trades.

    The stage after that is Jocketty sees all the valuable pieces saber metrics guy has brought to the farm, expresses his desire to trade it away for talent now, develops rift because saber guy is building a sustainable model for the future.... Not must win now. Then he is out of his GM job.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25