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View Poll Results: How confident are you in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward?

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  • I am confident in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward.

    86 79.63%
  • I am not confident in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward.

    22 20.37%
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Thread: Walt Jocketty

  1. #31
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by SporkLover View Post
    I voted that way because although he is building good teams, it's an unsustainable model for a small mid market team. There are holes in the field right now and almost all of the solutions will come from trading away talent for other talent to FA signings. There isn't enough coming up through the pipeline.

    This off season will be his most difficult, and aside from Castellini bumping payroll I just not sure Walt can fill the holes out there in a way that doesn't compromise the Reds future.



    This is another issue I have. Where Walt is now is starting to shape up like his STL departure. DeWitt said numerous times over the year that the model they implemented couldn't be sustained because it depletes the farm and relies too heavily on signing FA in a market they can't afford too.

    What was DeWitts next move? He hired Lunhow as the head of recruiting, procurement, and scouting. Who was Lunhow? A non-baseball guy who was sharp with using numbers to define value of players for recruiting purposes as well as trades.

    The stage after that is Jocketty sees all the valuable pieces saber metrics guy has brought to the farm, expresses his desire to trade it away for talent now, develops rift because saber guy is building a sustainable model for the future.... Not must win now. Then he is out of his GM job.


    None, I repeat none of the players that Walt has traded away have went on to be stars. Wood has the best chance, but he would have been the 6th or 7th starter here. Alonso could not play a very good LF, and Grandal was blocked, but that turned out to be the least of his problems.


    The organizational shift to pitching and defense, has more to do with lack the lack of top hitting prospects, and the last two drafts of all bat Winker, and Ervin have shown the Reds are working to improve that.


    I am interested to see how Walt works this offseason being on the same page as his manager for the first time since he has been here.

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  3. #32
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by SporkLover View Post
    This off season will be his most difficult, and aside from Castellini bumping payroll I just not sure Walt can fill the holes out there in a way that doesn't compromise the Reds future.
    I don't think it's that bad. I see one hole...in CF, and I'd guess they have about $10M or so to fill it. Swapping Cingrani for Arroyo is a wash and we have a relief pitcher who could move into the rotation in Chapman. There should be enough pieces on the roster to make it work but yeah, Walt's going to suffer for some of his sins like the Broxton contract. People seem to forget that this was a 95-win team according to pythagoras in a tough division (the Pirates won't be as good next year) that lost it's cleanup hitter all year and it's ace for half the year. Being healthy alone probably makes up for losing Choo to free agency.

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  5. #33
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    It's unbelievable to me that anyone would disapprove of a GM that consistently builds teams that have legitimate world series hopes and are usually the favorite to win their division. I don't agree with every move Walt makes but I do believe that in a world that everything works out the way it's supposed to the Reds would still be playing baseball.

    How many games did you think the Reds would win this year? How about last year or the year before? If you find yourself guessing around 90 games every year then you have to admit the GM is doing his job. Any GM that runs a team that can and usually does win 90 games is doing things right. I believe anything above winning consistently is on the players and coaches. This past year Walt put together a team that won 90 games in their sleep while also often being shorthanded because of injuries. Walt and Reds will put a team together capable of repeating that feat again. Lets just hope for a little better luck and a lot more competitive fire.
    Does Walt really deserve THAT much credit? There are a lot of people that had a hand in getting the Reds where they are now. Walt had 1 move this year that really paid off. Choo. That's it. There were a lot of other moves and non-moves (Byrd) that didn't pay off.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  6. #34
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Does Walt really deserve THAT much credit? There are a lot of people that had a hand in getting the Reds where they are now. Walt had 1 move this year that really paid off. Choo. That's it. There were a lot of other moves and non-moves (Byrd) that didn't pay off.
    Choo, Latos, Chapman are all game changers and were brought in for very little. Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Phillips are all top notch players that Walt locked up. The bad moves that he's made are well documented here but no one mentions that those moves never kill the team and barely hurt them because of all the good moves he makes. Para and Simon have been fantastic and how much money did the Reds fork out to them? There's a core of players in Cincinnati that should keep the Reds winning a lot of games for at least the next few years.

    BTW the non-moves thing works both ways. Homer Bailey has the highest value he's probably ever had to the Reds and a lot of people here thought Walt should've traded him for Jermaine Dye a few years ago. Bailey has become something close to an ace and Dye hasn't played a single game since that all went on.

  7. #35
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    Choo, Latos, Chapman are all game changers and were brought in for very little. Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Phillips are all top notch players that Walt locked up. The bad moves that he's made are well documented here but no one mentions that those moves never kill the team and barely hurt them because of all the good moves he makes. Para and Simon have been fantastic and how much money did the Reds fork out to them? There's a core of players in Cincinnati that should keep the Reds winning a lot of games for at least the next few years.

    BTW the non-moves thing works both ways. Homer Bailey has the highest value he's probably ever had to the Reds and a lot of people here thought Walt should've traded him for Jermaine Dye a few years ago. Bailey has become something close to an ace and Dye hasn't played a single game since that all went on.
    Walt has now been gm for 6 years. He's been ok. But, I think some are too easy on him.

    Of the 7 players you listed I see 3 players that weren't brought in for "for very little", 2 players that were given good contracts (Cueto/Bruce), and 2 players that were given contracts where Walt gave more than he should've (Votto/BP).

    Bad moves DO hurt you though and he hasn't made that many good moves that the bad moves don't count. They still do count.

    A gm should add some inexpensive role players. That's part of the job. I'd give more credit for Simon & Parra to Price.

    Would you really be happy with 90 win seasons for the next few years? I'd prefer the winning to last longer than that and to see a lot more winning in the playoffs.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  8. #36
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    None, I repeat none of the players that Walt has traded away have went on to be stars. .
    I would argue that Edwin Encarnacion has become a star. Also, Wlad Balentien is a pretty big star in Japan who has convinced me he'd be a star here by now (this wasn't a trade... actually it was worse... they let him walk when we had him under team control for several more years).

    I have confidence in Walt, and I wasn't critical of either of the above moves at the time. But in retrospect, they were bad moves.

    And there have been some non-STAR players who were traded away or released who have become much better than the 20th-25th guys on our roster, and who we could have used at various times the last few years:

    July 26, 2011 - The Cincinnati Reds traded Jonny Gomes and cash to the Washington Nationals for Bill Rhinehart (minors) and Christopher Manno (minors).

    August 19, 2008 - released David Ross [the Reds have a history of undervaluing guys named "Ross." See Cody]

    October 29, 2012 - Dioner Navarro of the Cincinnati Reds granted free agency.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  9. #37
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I would argue that Edwin Encarnacion has become a star. Also, Wlad Balentien is a pretty big star in Japan who has convinced me he'd be a star here by now (this wasn't a trade... actually it was worse... they let him walk when we had him under team control for several more years).

    I have confidence in Walt, and I wasn't critical of either of the above moves at the time. But in retrospect, they were bad moves.

    And there have been some non-STAR players who were traded away or released who have become much better than the 20th-25th guys on our roster, and who we could have used at various times the last few years:

    July 26, 2011 - The Cincinnati Reds traded Jonny Gomes and cash to the Washington Nationals for Bill Rhinehart (minors) and Christopher Manno (minors).

    August 19, 2008 - released David Ross [the Reds have a history of undervaluing guys named "Ross." See Cody]

    October 29, 2012 - Dioner Navarro of the Cincinnati Reds granted free agency.


    Your kidding me if you think Balentin would be a star right now..... right here in MLB. Plenty of other teams had a chance to grab him as well. And even so.... Why would you think he would even come close to being a star here in the US? Just because of one great year in Japan?

    Everyone wanted Gomes gone during 2011. Ludwick, when healthy was a better option than Gomes going into 2012. Good for him that he is in the WS and grew that beard and stuff, but he was not a guy they Needed to keep.

    David Ross? Are you serious?

    Navarro...yes I thought that was a bad idea to let him go but he did not want to go to the minors again. They were not going to send Devin down to keep Navarro.

  10. #38
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I would argue that Edwin Encarnacion has become a star. Also, Wlad Balentien is a pretty big star in Japan who has convinced me he'd be a star here by now (this wasn't a trade... actually it was worse... they let him walk when we had him under team control for several more years).

    I have confidence in Walt, and I wasn't critical of either of the above moves at the time. But in retrospect, they were bad moves.

    And there have been some non-STAR players who were traded away or released who have become much better than the 20th-25th guys on our roster, and who we could have used at various times the last few years:

    July 26, 2011 - The Cincinnati Reds traded Jonny Gomes and cash to the Washington Nationals for Bill Rhinehart (minors) and Christopher Manno (minors).

    August 19, 2008 - released David Ross [the Reds have a history of undervaluing guys named "Ross." See Cody]

    October 29, 2012 - Dioner Navarro of the Cincinnati Reds granted free agency.

    On Edwin, the guy was traded in 09, was later released by Toronto went to Oakland, back to Toronto, waived, went unclaimed, and then finally emerged in 2012. While yeah, his bat would sure be nice if we had a DH, I have no idea where the team could have played him, while he scuffled for 3 years.

    I liked Wlad too, it was always a weird situation to me why they traded for him he played OK while Bruce was out, then released him. He did go straight to Japan though, not even a minor league deal somewhere so I don't know. I disagree slightly that he would be a star here, I mean Lastings Milledge is doing really well over there too. I would agree that he might have been an 800 OPS if everything worked out for him.

    On Gomes, we were going nowhere in 2011, and Gomes was being overused, and a free agent to be, Walt said at the time the trade was to see if Alonso could be the LF, he later had to release Fred Lewis so Dusty would actually play Alonso.

    David Ross cleared way for Hanigan, and in that offseason Walt traded for Hernandez, a very good move, that he gets zero credit for around here.

    The situation with Navarro is interesting because Walt sounded pretty PO'd when he signed with the Cubs. From the sounds of it they had a deal in place, and his agent took it to the Cubs to try and get a better deal.

  11. #39
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I like Walt a lot. He is a very good GM. When it comes to trades, I don't think a GM in the league is better. Walt isn't as good when it comes to Free agents and contract extensions though, because he does tend to overpay. Walt can build great teams through trades though.

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  13. #40
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Would any like to see Stubbs back here if he is non-tendered in Cleveland?

  14. #41
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I would argue that Edwin Encarnacion has become a star. Also, Wlad Balentien is a pretty big star in Japan who has convinced me he'd be a star here by now (this wasn't a trade... actually it was worse... they let him walk when we had him under team control for several more years).

    I have confidence in Walt, and I wasn't critical of either of the above moves at the time. But in retrospect, they were bad moves.

    And there have been some non-STAR players who were traded away or released who have become much better than the 20th-25th guys on our roster, and who we could have used at various times the last few years:

    July 26, 2011 - The Cincinnati Reds traded Jonny Gomes and cash to the Washington Nationals for Bill Rhinehart (minors) and Christopher Manno (minors).

    August 19, 2008 - released David Ross [the Reds have a history of undervaluing guys named "Ross." See Cody]

    October 29, 2012 - Dioner Navarro of the Cincinnati Reds granted free agency.
    The Wlad statement pretty much negates anything else written in this post.

  15. #42
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by BEETTLEBUG View Post
    Would any like to see Stubbs back here if he is non-tendered in Cleveland?
    I don't know if "like" is the best word to use, but I would be fine with it. He'd be an improvement over Heisey.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. #43
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by BEETTLEBUG View Post
    Would any like to see Stubbs back here if he is non-tendered in Cleveland?
    If the Reds can't get a prime guy for CF and would go with some one like David Dejesus, Stubbs, as his platoon mate and defensive caddy, would make a ton of sense. He'd have to be cheap though.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  17. #44
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If the Reds can't get a prime guy for CF and would go with some one like David Dejesus, Stubbs, as his platoon mate and defensive caddy, would make a ton of sense. He'd have to be cheap though.
    He got nearly 3 million from Cleveland in 2014 and will be arb-eligible for the second time. He won't be cheap.

  18. #45
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    He got nearly 3 million from Cleveland in 2014 and will be arb-eligible for the second time. He won't be cheap.
    If he's non-tendered he might be. Can't see him getting more than 3 or 4 million on the open market.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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