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View Poll Results: How confident are you in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward?

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  • I am confident in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward.

    86 79.63%
  • I am not confident in Walt Jocketty's ability moving forward.

    22 20.37%
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Thread: Walt Jocketty

  1. #46
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Walt has now been gm for 6 years. He's been ok. But, I think some are too easy on him.

    Of the 7 players you listed I see 3 players that weren't brought in for "for very little", 2 players that were given good contracts (Cueto/Bruce), and 2 players that were given contracts where Walt gave more than he should've (Votto/BP).

    Bad moves DO hurt you though and he hasn't made that many good moves that the bad moves don't count. They still do count.

    A gm should add some inexpensive role players. That's part of the job. I'd give more credit for Simon & Parra to Price.

    Would you really be happy with 90 win seasons for the next few years? I'd prefer the winning to last longer than that and to see a lot more winning in the playoffs.
    How have his bad moves hurt the Reds?

    And yes, I'm fine with 90 win seasons.

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  3. #47
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    The Wlad statement pretty much negates anything else written in this post.
    Yeah right because everyone who plays in Japan sucks, and players routinely have years like he's had his last two years.

    What the hell is your problem?
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  4. #48
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Yeah right because everyone who plays in Japan sucks, and players routinely have years like he's had his last two years.

    What the hell is your problem?
    The problem is that people are reaching. In 6 years Walt has failed to block one waiver claim and failed to retain a player the went over to Japan to play.

    I know he's made a few more small mistakes but without a crystal ball all GM's are going to do that.

  5. #49
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    The problem is that people are reaching. In 6 years Walt has failed to block one waiver claim and failed to retain a player the went over to Japan to play.

    I know he's made a few more small mistakes but without a crystal ball all GM's are going to do that.
    Seriously. Dan O'Brien made more and bigger mistakes in his two years as Reds GM than Jocketty has made his entire 20 year GM career.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. #50
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Walt has now been gm for 6 years. He's been ok. But, I think some are too easy on him.

    Of the 7 players you listed I see 3 players that weren't brought in for "for very little", 2 players that were given good contracts (Cueto/Bruce), and 2 players that were given contracts where Walt gave more than he should've (Votto/BP).

    Bad moves DO hurt you though and he hasn't made that many good moves that the bad moves don't count. They still do count.

    A gm should add some inexpensive role players. That's part of the job. I'd give more credit for Simon & Parra to Price.

    Would you really be happy with 90 win seasons for the next few years? I'd prefer the winning to last longer than that and to see a lot more winning in the playoffs.
    I only claimed that Chapman, Latos and Choo were brought in for very little.

  7. #51
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    Your kidding me if you think Balentin would be a star right now..... right here in MLB. Plenty of other teams had a chance to grab him as well. And even so.... Why would you think he would even come close to being a star here in the US? Just because of one great year in Japan?

    Because league equivalency metrics make it very, very, very likely to be true. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=1330

    And he's had two great years in Japan which is widely recognized as being somewhere in between the level of AAA and MLB. The second one just happened to be historic. Even with the livelier ball, the Central League is a pitcher's league and nobody came within a mile of his level of production. And it's not like this guy never had raw power , The last home run he hit in the majors went 495 feet. Nobody has hit a longer one since.

    If the Louisville Bats had a 28 year old with this line [130 games.... 60 HR, 131 RBI, .330/.455/.779] do you think maybe it's not out of the question that he'd be an elite major league player in the bigs next year? I don't.

    I'm not saying I or anybody else would have made a different choice than
    Walt made but this is definitely one he would (or should) like to have back.

    Good lord people. There are late bloomers out there. The Pirates would like to have Jose Bautista back for similar reasons.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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  9. #52
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    The problem is that people are reaching. In 6 years Walt has failed to block one waiver claim and failed to retain a player the went over to Japan to play.

    I know he's made a few more small mistakes but without a crystal ball all GM's are going to do that.
    I agree, and I approve of Walt's job performance (see my vote in this poll). We are lucky to have him as our GM. I just said that Edwin E did become a star player over the last 2 years (in reaction to someone who said nobody he traded away became a star), opined that I think Balentien should be considered a star, and then pointed out some trades he'd like to have back.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  10. #53
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I agree, and I approve of Walt's job performance (see my vote in this poll). We are lucky to have him as our GM. I just said that Edwin E did become a star player over the last 2 years (in reaction to someone who said nobody he traded away became a star), opined that I think Balentien should be considered a star, and then pointed out some trades he'd like to have back.
    I agree but you have to admit that Edwin had no place with the Reds at the time of the trade as well as present day. If there was a DL in the NL it would be a completely different story but as we all know there's not.

  11. #54
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Yeah right because everyone who plays in Japan sucks, and players routinely have years like he's had his last two years.

    What the hell is your problem?
    Video game numbers usually come with caveats. I'm not an expert in how the Japanese game is being played but I don't think the odds are in Wlad's favor that he suddenly went to Japan and magically became the roided out version of Barry Bonds.

  12. #55
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    How have his bad moves hurt the Reds?
    I hope you're kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    And yes, I'm fine with 90 win seasons.
    Hey, if that's what makes you happy good for you. I want more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    I only claimed that Chapman, Latos and Choo were brought in for very little.
    And those were the 3 that I was referring to when I wrote:

    I see 3 players that weren't brought in for "for very little"
    What did you think that meant?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  13. #56
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    David Ross cleared way for Hanigan, and in that offseason Walt traded for Hernandez, a very good move, that he gets zero credit for around here.
    Except that he DID receive a lot of credit for that trade.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  14. #57
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Except that he DID receive a lot of credit for that trade.

    For a while yes, but now you here nothing about that. And I only brought that up in regards to someone else who had mentioned letting go of David Ross the season before the Reds traded for Hernandez.


    The giving credit for something comes in when we hear pining for the ones that got away, which most of us are guilty of, but we shouldn't forget the good either.

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  16. #58
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    While I agree there are late bloomers how long does a team hang on to a player while he scuffles? Secondly - what guarantee is there a player would even blossom with his current team had he remained? Maybe he hooks up with a coach somewhere else that "clicks" for him that he wouldn't have had at as his former team. Or the same opportunity or circumstance. EE had plenty of chances here. Wlad scuffled both here and in Seattle. If you had told me in 2009 that either player would have 2012-2013 seasons like they would have I would have said you were insane. Who predicts that? How the heck do you hold that against Walt? It is not as if EE set Toronto on fire as soon as he was moved either.

    Of all the youngsters Walt has dealt out only Gregorius, Alonso, Grandal and Wood have really done anything. Gregorious snagged Choo. Alonso OPS'd .741 playing 1st base while Grandal has been mired in enhancement controversy. They snagged Latos. Wood had a good year but again - would he have gotten the same chance had he remained here? He brought Marshall. Torreyes (.684 at AA) and Sappelt did nothing that should make anyone think they will ever contribute much.

    There may be some truth that Walt overpays a bit - but he tends to overpay in pieces that are blocked or not that good in the end.

    As to the criticism he runs down the farm all I can say is that the upper farm is barren mostly because of a boatload of promotions and trades. There is a whole raft of good prospects coming up - a handful at AA and a lot more at A+ and below. A true SS with a glimmer of offense is the only hole in the system (position with no hope right now at any level). So - there may be some truth that he over leveraged the farm for 2013/2014 but it is still pretty good looking ahead to 2015 and beyond. I would much rather have had Rolen while he was here, Choo, even for this one season, Marshall, and certainly Latos, than all those other guys. I have a hard time thinking what could have been acquired for the same players that would have been better.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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  18. #59
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Does Walt really deserve THAT much credit? There are a lot of people that had a hand in getting the Reds where they are now. Walt had 1 move this year that really paid off. Choo. That's it. .
    Parra paid off too.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  19. #60
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    July 26, 2011 - The Cincinnati Reds traded Jonny Gomes and cash to the Washington Nationals for Bill Rhinehart (minors) and Christopher Manno (minors).

    August 19, 2008 - released David Ross [the Reds have a history of undervaluing guys named "Ross." See Cody]

    October 29, 2012 - Dioner Navarro of the Cincinnati Reds granted free agency.
    Gomes was OPSed 714 in 2011. He followed that up with a good year in 2012 (although not as good as Ludwick did in 2012). This year Gomes was given a multiyear contract to OPS 771, which is pretty good, but not something to cry over. I think most of the board would've had a meltdown if the Reds gave Gomes a multyear deal after 2011 (or went to arb or whatver they had to do to keep him). Gomes had worn out his welcome here.

    Kind of hard to keep 3 catchers on the roster.. I don't really consider Ross/Navarro as big losses.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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