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Thread: Choo

  1. #151
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Frazier was indeed 14th in OPS among qualified third baseman, but there were only 19 of them. He was 14 of 19 of qualified third baseman. That's not average.

    Cozart was indeed 13th in OPS among qualified shortstops, but there were only 17 of them. He was 13 of 17 qualified shortstops. That's not average.

    Limiting the universe to qualified players is problematic because some teams platoon, or rotate, or have injured starters. So many teams man these positions with guys having too few PAs to qualify.

    But based on the qualified players, using OPS, both Frazier and Cozart were well below average.
    Better way to look at it.

    Reds 3rd Baseman were 12th out of 15th in NL in OPS.

    Reds SS were 10th out of 15th in NL in OPS.

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  3. #152
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    He's the poster child for splitty RH bat. In 2013 he had a respectable .742 OPS against LHP as opposed to a detrimental .689 against RHP. He's actually a lot more balanced than he was a few years ago. He, Cozart and Frazier (and Mesoraco) are all basically the same guy and it's a lot of why this offense is so easy for teams to make look lethargic for long periods of time. The last couple years, Ludwick and Heisey have also been similar. The Reds don't have money or talent to go out and get guys who are good against both RHP and LHP. RH hitters who can hit well against RHP are generally among the top players in the game and adding a couple to upgrade some of these offensively average to below average spots would probably cost a significant amount of money and most of the actual top talent the Reds have in the farm. What is more realistically done, IMO, is to add a couple of role playing lefty hitters who can split time with these guys to upgrade these spots by taking PAs away from these guys in situations where they struggle most.

    An Eric Chavez, AJ Pierzynski and David Dejesus trio as a backfill for Choo (for roughly the same cost) and as replacements for Hannahanahanigan might go a long way toward somewhat filling the lead-off role and beefing up a couple line-up spots. Chavez/Frazier would make 3B a plus offensive spot. Same at Catcher with Pierzynski/Mesoraco. Dejesus/Heisey platooning in CF wouldn't be as productive as Choo, but it wouldn't be the black hole the position looks to be by going with In-House options until Hamilton gets ready. If the Reds could find a decent 400 PA lefty hitting middle IF to replace Izturis who could play some second and SS to let Cozart and Phillips sit more against tougher RHP, that would be ideal, but I'm having a hard time identifying an actual player who would fit (before he was dealt, I thought that Didi Gregorious had the potential to be a good fit with those two). If those players were acquired, IMO, only Dejesus/Heisey should be a straight platoon. The others should be tandem spots with the veterans Chavez and Pierzynski spotting in against the exact match-ups that give our splitty RH guys trouble. IMO, Mesoraco is the only RH bat on the roster who has the potential to be an every day guy who hits well against RHP. Unfortunately, as a catcher, he's going to need time off anyway. May as well get a LH bat to share the job 1.) so Mes can rest when it's most advantageous match-up wise and 2.) could handle a bigger role if Mesoraco fails to develop and settles in as a lefty killer.

    I'm not saying teams should set out to get platoons everywhere, but this group of Reds players are especially in need of help against RHP. Adding a lefty or two who may struggle against RHP to share the jobs with the in house guys might be a cost effective way to upgrade. Having those LH Hitters is valuable. It's fairly easy to find RH bats who hit well against LHP to pair with them.
    I really like your concept here! Most postseason plans seem hell bent on bringing choo back. Using his money to bring in quality platoon partners to strengthen the bench and the lineup as a whole is a very good idea IMO.

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    joshua (10-31-2013)

  5. #153
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    Better way to look at it.

    Reds 3rd Baseman were 12th out of 15th in NL in OPS.

    Reds SS were 10th out of 15th in NL in OPS.
    Yes, right, although this includes the backups on teams.

    We might look at OPS and wRC+ for third basemen and shortstops with, say, 400 PAs this past year. Presumably that picks up the starters for most teams, even if they don't qualify. Presumably this cuts out backups.

    At third base, using 400 PAs, Frazier is 10th in OPS and 11th in wRC+ of 14 NL players. At third base, using 400 PAs, Frazier is 16th in OPS and 17th in wRC+ of 28 MLB players.

    At shortstop, using 400 PAs, Cozart is 9th in OPS and in wRC+ of 12 NL players. Cozart is 18th in OPS and in wRC+ of 24 MLB players.

  6. #154
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Yes, right, although this includes the backups on teams.

    We might look at OPS and wRC+ for third basemen and shortstops with, say, 400 PAs this past year. Presumably that picks up the starters for most teams, even if they don't qualify. Presumably this cuts out backups.

    At third base, using 400 PAs, Frazier is 10th in OPS and 11th in wRC+ of 14 NL players. At third base, using 400 PAs, Frazier is 16th in OPS and 17th in wRC+ of 28 MLB players.

    At shortstop, using 400 PAs, Cozart is 9th in OPS and in wRC+ of 12 NL players. Cozart is 18th in OPS and in wRC+ of 24 MLB players.
    I personally like to account for backups too. If a player is not healthy enough or good enough to play all the games then what they are having to be replaced with count to me.

    When sorting just by individuals you get players mixed in who accumulated stats that were not always at those positions like Prado and Michael Young at 3B. So the Reds were below average at these positions and were asking Cozart and Frazier to do most of the playing.

    Whatever your preference is the Reds did not get average performance from these positions at the plate.

  7. #155
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    Re: Choo

    Walt on Sirius XM with Mike Ferrin today about Phillips, payroll, Chapman, and more:

    https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsport...-jocketty-they

  8. #156
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Walt on Sirius XM with Mike Ferrin today about Phillips, payroll, Chapman, and more:

    https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsport...-jocketty-they
    Sounds like Phillips is good as gone.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #157
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Walt on Sirius XM with Mike Ferrin today about Phillips, payroll, Chapman, and more:

    https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsport...-jocketty-they
    It sounded like Jocketty inadvertently spilled the beans they aren't planning on re-signing Bronson when he said "we do" have a spot (open) and then quickly corrected his statement to say "we might" if Arroyo leaves.

    His answer about not shopping Brandon sounded sincere. He left open the possibility of doing it, but if they do, it felt like it would be more for baseball and financial reasons than anything related to what he's done or said.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #158
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Sounds like Phillips is good as gone.
    Yeah, this is a 'getting the word out' interview, right?

  11. #159
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    Re: Choo

    ^Anyway to get cliffs notes on the interview? Id love to hear it.

  12. #160
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    ^Anyway to get cliffs notes on the interview? Id love to hear it.
    It was only two minutes long if you have two minutes to spare. But if you don't:

    * Basically they're not shopping Brandon and that was a media created thing, but did note that they'll shop Brandon or anyone else if it's the right thing to do to improve the club

    * He advocates for Chapman to go to the rotation and he and Bryan Price will sit down after they finalize the staff and talk about that

    * Bronson being a free agent could impact whether they use Chapman in the rotation; slipped and said a spot is now open (implying they would not re-sign him), but quickly corrected himself to say something like 'if he leaves'

    * Said they are a small market but Bob wants to win and will stretch it to the limit if they have to do so

    * They want to re-sign Choo but they are discussing all sorts of options based on whether he stays or goes
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #161
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    Re: Choo

    Thanks. I clicked the link and couldn't bring up the interview. Not sure if I did something wrong.

  14. #162
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I really like your concept here! Most postseason plans seem hell bent on bringing choo back. Using his money to bring in quality platoon partners to strengthen the bench and the lineup as a whole is a very good idea IMO.


    By position OPS:

    C - 616
    SS - 646
    LF - 695
    2nd - 695
    3rd - 702
    RF- 812
    CF - 862
    1B - 904

    The DH's are at 597 and the PH's at 691

    Fixing C and SS will cost a lot and those are traditional defense-first positions. I hope to get some improvement from catcher with some Mesoraco maturation and a healthy Hannigan. I don't see Cozart improving much.

    Left-field is glaring. And the Choo situation makes the OF dicey indeed. I'd crowd-source the OF like the '99 Reds (Vaugh, Cameron, Tucker, Hammonds, Dmitri Young)
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  15. #163
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    It was only two minutes long if you have two minutes to spare. But if you don't:

    * Basically they're not shopping Brandon and that was a media created thing, but did note that they'll shop Brandon or anyone else if it's the right thing to do to improve the club

    * He advocates for Chapman to go to the rotation and he and Bryan Price will sit down after they finalize the staff and talk about that

    * Bronson being a free agent could impact whether they use Chapman in the rotation; slipped and said a spot is now open (implying they would not re-sign him), but quickly corrected himself to say something like 'if he leaves'

    * Said they are a small market but Bob wants to win and will stretch it to the limit if they have to do so

    * They want to re-sign Choo but they are discussing all sorts of options based on whether he stays or goes
    On Chapman, I got a different flavor. He said that it was a "great question"; that they are putting together a staff which will discuss this; there have been plusses keeping Chappy in the pen; also plusses in starting and Walt felt he should start all along; have to wait and see about rotation slots (Reds "do have" then corrected to "may have" potential spot (Arroyo) open); and if Chapman is in rotation Reds will have an opening to finish games.

    My speculation on this is that the Reds have no idea if Chapman will start or relieve. That it will depend on what the rotation looks like after deals.

    If both Arroyo and another starter, say Bailey, leave then Aroldis will start. But if the Reds feel they have a "full" rotation, he will stay in the pen and perhaps just pitch some more innings.

    Not saying it's wise to decide this way. But I think the Chapman decision is unclear now and they will make the decision depending on how the rotation looks after trades.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-29-2013 at 04:15 PM.

  16. #164
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    On Chapman, I got a different flavor. He said that it was a "great question"; that they are putting together a staff which will discuss this; there have been plusses keeping Chappy in the pen; also plusses in starting and Walt felt he should start all along; have to wait and see about rotation slots (Reds "do have" then corrected to "may have" potential spot (Arroyo) open); and if Chapman is in rotation Reds will have an opening to finish games.

    My speculation on this is that the Reds have no idea if Chapman will start or relieve. That it will depend on what the rotation looks like after deals.

    If both Arroyo and another starter, say Bailey, leave then Aroldis will start. But if the Reds feel they have a "full" rotation, he will stay in the pen and perhaps just pitch some more innings.

    Not saying it's wise to decide this way. But I think the Chapman decision is unclear now and they will make the decision depending on how the rotation looks after trades.
    But he did outright say he prefers Chapman be in the rotation. That doesn't mean he'll end up there, as he pointed out they felt they needed him in the bullpen, but Jocketty said clearly he preferred Chapman as a starter.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  17. #165
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    He also said that they were "going to pursue both" Choo and Arroyo.

    No idea what that means with respect to Arroyo.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi


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