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Thread: Choo

  1. #181
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    I think Frazier will definitely be the opening day 3B next season.

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  3. #182
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Frazier will definitely be the opening day 3B next season.
    If that's the case let's hope there's a significant upgrade made at another position.

  4. #183
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Frazier will definitely be the opening day 3B next season.
    I doubt Walt Jocketty knows the answer on that issue right now.

  5. #184
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I doubt Walt Jocketty knows the answer on that issue right now.
    Frazier is not nearly as weak of a player as the majority of people seem to think (including myself most of the regular season). After the season ended I took a step back and looked at his stats and he was serviceable offensively and very good defensively. He has good pop (51 XBH) and a decent OPS. He is a top 3 defensive 3B in the NL. I think there are multiple other positions that need to be looked at before 3B, and I think Walt knows that.

  6. #185
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Frazier is not nearly as weak of a player as the majority of people seem to think (including myself most of the regular season). After the season ended I took a step back and looked at his stats and he was serviceable offensively and very good defensively. He has good pop (51 XBH) and a decent OPS. He is a top 3 defensive 3B in the NL. I think there are multiple other positions that need to be looked at before 3B, and I think Walt knows that.
    I would modify this statement. I think there are multiple positions that need to be looked at INCLUDING 3B. Depending on who is obtainable, third base is on the table.

    Everybody seems to have a favorite position or player who shouldn't be touched. Mesoraco and Frazier are two particular ones. Folks would move Cozart, but of course SS is the weakest hitting position so it's the toughest to replace.

    Nothing should be off the table except for Votto and Bruce. Other clubs would even put THEM on the table, but I'm not suggesting that.

    The Reds need more hitting depth in the lineup. Period. Frazier cannot be untouchable.

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  8. #186
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    Re: Choo

    If you are expecting Walt to completely overhaul the team outside of a few players, don't hold your breath.

    Frazier is really cheap and serviceable. He is not a favorite of mine that shouldn't be touched. I am fine with trading anyone as long as it helps the club, I am simply saying I do not think replacing Frazier is, or should be considered a priority this offseason.

  9. #187
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Frazier is not nearly as weak of a player as the majority of people seem to think (including myself most of the regular season). After the season ended I took a step back and looked at his stats and he was serviceable offensively and very good defensively. He has good pop (51 XBH) and a decent OPS. He is a top 3 defensive 3B in the NL. I think there are multiple other positions that need to be looked at before 3B, and I think Walt knows that.
    Agree. Frazier is one of the least of this team's worries. He will OPS .720 to .760 and play solid defense. He's also a good ambassador for the team and a solid clubhouse presence on a team that needs some character to lighten things up (especially with the probable offseason trade of datdude).

    And he will do it for a minimal cost for a few years (until SMB takes the position from him).

  10. #188
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    Re: Choo

    Guys like Frazier are similar to kids of the past and current

    - Cozart, Stubbs his first few years, Hannigan, Orndrusek, etc.. They were at one time not totally pathetic but maybe were mediocre (slightly below mediocre) and are cheap. So these kinds of players help afford higher costing players while filling out the roster and at same time not be totally pathetic.

    But when these same players start to cost 2M + and hit arbritation, etc.. is when they suddenly become unattractive as they eat into payroll as opposed to balancing it out. Frazier is serviceable but hitting .230 avg and obp .314 was part of the offensive problem this year. If he can't improve upon that in the next 2 years...the Reds should do him like they did Drew Stubbs...give him away and move on to next option. (Cozart falls in the exact same boat to me).

  11. #189
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    Re: Choo

    I disagree with all these posts about Frazier being "one of the least of the team's worries." IMO this overlooks baseball in 2013-14 and what it takes to win.

    The Red Sox and Cards excelled primarily in one area this season. Solid offensive depth. Look at their numbers. Pitching on good clubs today is very, very strong. To counter this you must have a very effective offense.

    Virtually nobody develops that effective offense with a lineup full of stars. Instead you need a couple of stars and an otherwise effective lineup, with solid hitters throughout.

    There are only 8 positions on an NL team that can supply offense. A guy who hits .234 BA and a .721 OPS playing a corner position cannot be a given. The Reds need to explore upgrades.

  12. #190
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by UK Reds Fan View Post
    Guys like Frazier are similar to kids of the past and current

    - Cozart, Stubbs his first few years, Hannigan, Orndrusek, etc.. They were at one time not totally pathetic but maybe were mediocre (slightly below mediocre) and are cheap. So these kinds of players help afford higher costing players while filling out the roster and at same time not be totally pathetic.

    But when these same players start to cost 2M + and hit arbritation, etc.. is when they suddenly become unattractive as they eat into payroll as opposed to balancing it out. Frazier is serviceable but hitting .230 avg and obp .314 was part of the offensive problem this year. If he can't improve upon that in the next 2 years...the Reds should do him like they did Drew Stubbs...give him away and move on to next option. (Cozart falls in the exact same boat to me).
    They didn't "give Stubbs away" though, he was part of the package that brought one of the best offensive players (Choo) in MLB to the Reds. If the Reds are able to include Frazier in a trade to get one of the best 3B in the majors, I am all for it. I just think there are other priorities with this club. Namely, CF, LF, SS, and C.

  13. #191
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I disagree with all these posts about Frazier being "one of the least of the team's worries." IMO this overlooks baseball in 2013-14 and what it takes to win.

    The Red Sox and Cards excelled primarily in one area this season. Solid offensive depth. Look at their numbers. Pitching on good clubs today is very, very strong. To counter this you must have a very effective offense.

    Virtually nobody develops that effective offense with a lineup full of stars. Instead you need a couple of stars and an otherwise effective lineup, with solid hitters throughout.

    There are only 8 positions on an NL team that can supply offense. A guy who hits .234 BA and a .721 OPS playing a corner position cannot be a given. The Reds need to explore upgrades.
    Did the Red Sox not just win the world series with Jonny Gomes, David Ross, Shane Victorino and Stephen Drew in their lineup? Did I dream that?

    The Red Sox won the world series because they shut the Cardinals deep offense down.

  14. #192
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I disagree with all these posts about Frazier being "one of the least of the team's worries." IMO this overlooks baseball in 2013-14 and what it takes to win.

    The Red Sox and Cards excelled primarily in one area this season. Solid offensive depth. Look at their numbers. Pitching on good clubs today is very, very strong. To counter this you must have a very effective offense.

    Virtually nobody develops that effective offense with a lineup full of stars. Instead you need a couple of stars and an otherwise effective lineup, with solid hitters throughout.

    There are only 8 positions on an NL team that can supply offense. A guy who hits .234 BA and a .721 OPS playing a corner position cannot be a given. The Reds need to explore upgrades.
    Heh, that's funny, because in 2013 Cardinals 3B had a collective .706 OPS and Red Sox 3B combined for a .683 OPS...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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  16. #193
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    Re: Choo

    In fact, when compared to the Cardinals, the Reds got similar production out of their outfield and 3B. The Reds had the advantage at 1B and SS, while the Cards had the advantage at C and 2B...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  17. #194
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Did the Red Sox not just win the world series with Jonny Gomes, David Ross, Shane Victorino and Stephen Drew in their lineup? Did I dream that?

    The Red Sox won the world series because they shut the Cardinals deep offense down.
    Agree and the Reds have won with Frazier. They were a 95-win caliber team the past two years with him. He is not holding the team back in any way.

    It's the black hole in LF that is the most concerning for this team and I don't foresee even a healthy Ludwick (at 36) remedying that.

  18. #195
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Agree and the Reds have won with Frazier. They were a 95-win caliber team the past two years with him. He is not holding the team back in any way.

    It's the black hole in LF that is the most concerning for this team and I don't foresee even a healthy Ludwick (at 36) remedying that.
    Yup, when compared to league splits the Reds deficiencies were at C and in LF. The Reds have an in-house former top prospect with a high ceiling at one position and a 36 year-old to play the other. And I know which position is easier to acquire a replacement...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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