Turn Off Ads?
Page 14 of 20 FirstFirst ... 4101112131415161718 ... LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 295

Thread: Choo

  1. #196
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,661

    Re: Choo

    Here are the batting lines for the two teams in the World Series, let's get past the steroid era thought that a bat is available at every position all the time

    Red Sox - .211/.291/.330/.621
    Cards - .224/.273/.299/.572

  2. Likes:

    Big Klu (10-31-2013), HeatherC1212 (10-31-2013), lollipopcurve (10-31-2013), RedTeamGo! (10-31-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #197
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,535

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Did the Red Sox not just win the world series with Jonny Gomes, David Ross, Shane Victorino and Stephen Drew in their lineup? Did I dream that?

    The Red Sox won the world series because they shut the Cardinals deep offense down.
    The Red Sox and Cards won 97 games and won several playoff rounds, culminating in a World Series.

    The Red Sox had eleven players who hit for an OPS over .750 with more than 200 at bats. The Cards had six starting players (including Adams) with an OPS over .830.

    The Reds had three players above .750 OPS and two players above .830.

    This is the primary difference in the ballclubs.

    Reds have good pitching too. Reds probably have better defense. But you cannot win in today's baseball with three hitters.

  5. Likes:

    joshua (10-31-2013)

  6. #198
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,977

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Yup, when compared to league splits the Reds deficiencies were at C and in LF. The Reds have an in-house former top prospect with a high ceiling at one position and a 36 year-old to play the other. And I know which position is easier to acquire a replacement...
    I was looking at Mes and Hanigan on fangraphs and both players had low BABiP's (.263 and .216, respectively) with good LD% (21%+ for both). There has to be a lot of bad luck going on here. And both are good defenders. Maybe catcher isn't much of a concern.

  7. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (10-31-2013)

  8. #199
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,535

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Here are the batting lines for the two teams in the World Series, let's get past the steroid era thought that a bat is available at every position all the time

    Red Sox - .211/.291/.330/.621
    Cards - .224/.273/.299/.572
    IMO this is incorrect. Deep in the playoffs of any sport offensive numbers suffer because the defense (or pitching) faced is top notch. It's not the test.

    The Reds Sox are proof positive that a deep lineup of hitters will be successful. You don't need 50 home run hitters. But you can't be satisfied with .234 hitters.

    The Cards had six starting players above .830 OPS. The Reds had two.

    If pitching and defense alone were the keys, the Reds wouldn't have been the fifth best team in the NL, they would have been better. They lacked offensive depth, plain and simple.

  9. #200
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,746

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    I was looking at Mes and Hanigan on fangraphs and both players had low BABiP's (.263 and .216, respectively) with good LD% (21%+ for both). There has to be a lot of bad luck going on here. And both are good defenders. Maybe catcher isn't much of a concern.
    I'm willing to give Mes a real chance this year. His plate approach seems decent except when he dives after pitches on the outter half if the zone and dips his shoulder. I think hanigans low babip is due to weak contact more than bad luck. He was dealing with injury, but his bat has never been great despite decent in base skills. I think it may be time to move on from hanigan especially if arroyo isn't with the team.

  10. #201
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,977

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    It's the black hole in LF that is the most concerning for this team and I don't foresee even a healthy Ludwick (at 36) remedying that.
    One thing about Ludwick is that his bat might be good enough for him to have value as a DH. $8 and $9M for two years of a 2-3 win bat isn't bad, it's actually about right value-wise on the market. It's his awful defense that makes him an albatross. Maybe we can dump him to an American League team to free up the salary.

  11. #202
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    3,217

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    IMO this is incorrect. Deep in the playoffs of any sport offensive numbers suffer because the defense (or pitching) faced is top notch. It's not the test.

    The Reds Sox are proof positive that a deep lineup of hitters will be successful. You don't need 50 home run hitters. But you can't be satisfied with .234 hitters.

    The Cards had six starting players above .830 OPS. The Reds had two.

    If pitching and defense alone were the keys, the Reds wouldn't have been the fifth best team in the NL, they would have been better. They lacked offensive depth, plain and simple.
    No one is arguing your point about the Reds needing more offense. I am arguing moving Frazier in order to improve the offense should not be the priority. There are bigger holes in the lineup than Frazier, you cannot realistically expect the Reds to completely overhaul the lineup.

  12. #203
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,417

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Red Sox and Cards won 97 games and won several playoff rounds, culminating in a World Series.

    The Red Sox had eleven players who hit for an OPS over .750 with more than 200 at bats. The Cards had six starting players (including Adams) with an OPS over .830.

    The Reds had three players above .750 OPS and two players above .830.

    This is the primary difference in the ballclubs.

    Reds have good pitching too. Reds probably have better defense. But you cannot win in today's baseball with three hitters.
    I don't think it's fair to compare individual players when one team is in the AL and can utilize the DH, and the other had injuries that gave quality backups more playing time. You're double-counting Craig and Adams, for instance.

    I think looking position-by-position is the way to do it. The Reds had a small edge over the Cardinals at 1B and SS, but the Cardinals had massive advantages at C and 2B.

    Acquiring a C or 2B better than what the Reds already have in-house just seems unrealistic to me. Way too expensive, and both positions have bounce-back candidates. The position to upgrade is the ~.680 OPS and generally mediocre defense/baserunning the Reds had in LF.

    Don't forget, the Reds had better pitching staffs than both teams as well...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. #204
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,977

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I'm willing to give Mes a real chance this year. His plate approach seems decent except when he dives after pitches on the outter half if the zone and dips his shoulder. I think hanigans low babip is due to weak contact more than bad luck. He was dealing with injury, but his bat has never been great despite decent in base skills. I think it may be time to move on from hanigan especially if arroyo isn't with the team.
    I would absolutely non-tender Hanigan, but at the same time, if he'd never played for the Reds and I was looking at FAs, I would look at him and say "here's a good buy-low candidate with veteran leadership and a solid glove" and be interested.

  14. Likes:

    REDREAD (11-01-2013)

  15. #205
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,535

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    No one is arguing your point about the Reds needing more offense. I am arguing moving Frazier in order to improve the offense should not be the priority. There are bigger holes in the lineup than Frazier, you cannot realistically expect the Reds to completely overhaul the lineup.
    The priority is upgrading positions and adding OPS points where you can.

    Only Votto, Bruce, and Choo (if he stays) have an argument to be off the table.

    Otherwise you upgrade where you can.

    Teams aren't calling the Reds with top guys for sale at every position. The Reds will have limited options for upgrades.

    If the Reds can add, say, 40 OPS points at a given position they should listen. 50 or more OPS points? Listen harder. Other than Votto, Bruce, and Choo, there should be no priorities or non-priorities.

    Some say keep Frazier, Cozart and Mes, they are cheaper. Others would say keep Phillips and Ludwick based on track record of several good seasons.

    I say -- take the upgrades where you can get them. Almost no position is off limits. Depends on what deals are available. Simple.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-31-2013 at 11:56 AM.

  16. Likes:

    mth123 (10-31-2013), Old school 1983 (10-31-2013)

  17. #206
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,535

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I don't think it's fair to compare individual players when one team is in the AL and can utilize the DH, and the other had injuries that gave quality backups more playing time. You're double-counting Craig and Adams, for instance.

    I think looking position-by-position is the way to do it. The Reds had a small edge over the Cardinals at 1B and SS, but the Cardinals had massive advantages at C and 2B.

    Acquiring a C or 2B better than what the Reds already have in-house just seems unrealistic to me. Way too expensive, and both positions have bounce-back candidates. The position to upgrade is the ~.680 OPS and generally mediocre defense/baserunning the Reds had in LF.

    Don't forget, the Reds had better pitching staffs than both teams as well...

    The Red Sox turned their team around with (what I consider) a brilliant GM job. They recognized that getting solid depth, mid-level free agents, would dramatically boost their team. They had a wealth of solid hitters this year and to ignore them because of the A.L. is incorrect IMO.

    The Cards let Pujols go and instead developed or acquired very good hitters instead of one great NL hitter. Their hitting depth is the team's obvious strength.

    And you say Craig/Adams is double counting. I say, replacements count too. The Reds replaced Ludwick with Paul and Heisey. The Cards replaced Craig with Adams.

    Respectfully to those with an opposing view, I think it's incorrect to say that the Reds are essentially stuck with most of their current players. A good GM is creative and comes up with solutions.

    The current Reds front office hasn't acquired a single major league player in about ten months, unless you include Zach Duke. They have been too stuck on the same players for too long.
    Last edited by Kc61; 10-31-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  18. #207
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,977

    Re: Choo

    There's a difference between listening and shopping. I'd listen on anybody but Votto and Bruce, but like I said elsewhere, the team that's shopping is at a disadvantage leverage-wise, so assume from the outset you're going to give up more talent than you get, and ask yourself which players/positions you want to be buying/selling. I'm wouldn't be willing to take that loss on Frazier, Cozart, or Mes so I'm wouldn't be actively "shopping" them. I would be willing to take that loss on a starting pitcher, though, because Chapman can step in and not lose production.

  19. #208
    Member Mitri's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    503

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    IMO this is incorrect. Deep in the playoffs of any sport offensive numbers suffer because the defense (or pitching) faced is top notch. It's not the test.

    The Reds Sox are proof positive that a deep lineup of hitters will be successful. You don't need 50 home run hitters. But you can't be satisfied with .234 hitters.

    The Cards had six starting players above .830 OPS. The Reds had two.

    If pitching and defense alone were the keys, the Reds wouldn't have been the fifth best team in the NL, they would have been better. They lacked offensive depth, plain and simple.
    Another day, another jab at your displeasure with Frazier. At least you're getting creative about it.

  20. Likes:

    westofyou (10-31-2013)

  21. #209
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,746

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Another day, another jab at your displeasure with Frazier. At least you're getting creative about it.
    If the best things we can say about the guy are he has a nice ops versus lefties and plays good D, then he sounds like a platoon option to me.

  22. #210
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    13,392

    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    If the best things we can say about the guy are he has a nice ops versus lefties and plays good D, then he sounds like a platoon option to me.
    How about that he's 1 year removed from an .829 OPS and that he finished very strong? How about that he likely threw some added pressure on himself as he was replacing a guy that will probably end up in the HOF?

    Seems to me you don't give up on a guy after one bad season.
    Suck it up cupcake.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25