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Thread: Choo

  1. #16
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Pablo's weight problem can be easily fixed. Frazier's plate approach, not so much.
    Not so fast, my friend.

    I submit that Frazier's plate approach will be easier to fix than Sandoval's weight problem. Pablo will eat himself out of the game by the time he is 30.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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  4. #17
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    It does NOT add to the teams offense to get Sandoval. He's less than Frazier. And he's a defensive liability in comparison. He weakens the infield, and his girth will force a position change sooner rather than later.

    If Frazier has the exact same number of XBH's next year, and simply reaches base 20 more times, a base hit or walk extra per week, he's got a .780 OPS. If he add 10 hits, and his XBH's are 1/3 of his hit total, you are looking at an .800 OPS with stellar defense.

    Moving Frazier off 3B is a bad idea.
    Frazier hit .234 this year. I know all the chatter about BA being not important, but the guy is a corner player who hit .234.

    Maybe he rebounds, I don't know. But if the Reds keep the 3B, SS and C positions all the same next year it is a major risk.

    Sandoval seems to be gettable. A few years back he was an excellent third baseman with a higher UZR than Frazier now has. Panda's slipped back, perhaps due to conditioning, but he is still young.

    I'd prefer a truly top star at one of these positions, but assuming money is an issue, Sandoval is a good choice IMO. He consistently OBPs over .340 and could add power to his normal season playing in GABP.

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  6. #18
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Frazier hit .234 this year. I know all the chatter about BA being not important, but the guy is a corner player who hit .234.

    Maybe he rebounds, I don't know. But if the Reds keep the 3B, SS and C positions all the same next year it is a major risk.

    Sandoval seems to be gettable. A few years back he was an excellent third baseman with a higher UZR than Frazier now has. Panda's slipped back, perhaps due to conditioning, but he is still young.

    I'd prefer a truly top star at one of these positions, but assuming money is an issue, Sandoval is a good choice IMO. He consistently OBPs over .340 and could add power to his normal season playing in GABP.
    Who goes to SF in exchange?
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  7. #19
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Ok, first, if Sandoval's weight is easily corrected why hasn't it been corrected? He gets bigger every year.

    2, his power numbers are in a two year decline. He may play in a park that suppresses HR's a bit, but it's a double and triple haven. GABP is the opposite, yet Frazier was better in the power category in doubles, triples and HR's in only 6 more AB's.

    WAR isn't my favorite stat, but there is something to be said for Frazier here defensively. his .7 WAR was third in the NL for players that qualified. Panda was -0.4, dead last.

    Sandoval's overall WAR in 2013, 2.5. Fraziers, 2.7. Clearly Sandoval had a better season offensively, but his defense all but negated that in comparison to Frazier.

    As for approach. Frazier jumped his walks by 20 from 2012 to 2013. Frazier had a .269 BABIP to Sandoval's .301. Considering the XBH totals, that screams that Frazier was at least a little unlucky when it came to hitting singles. All through his professional career, Frazier has shown that if he has a normal BABIP, he's an .800+ OPS bat. Now he's shown that he's also a top tier defender.

    You do not upgrade LF by weakening 3B. You do it by getting a better LF.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  9. #20
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    150 fewer AB's Juan Francisco had better power numbers than Panda.

    Think about that.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  11. #21
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Frazier hit .234 this year. I know all the chatter about BA being not important, but the guy is a corner player who hit .234.

    Maybe he rebounds, I don't know. But if the Reds keep the 3B, SS and C positions all the same next year it is a major risk.

    Sandoval seems to be gettable. A few years back he was an excellent third baseman with a higher UZR than Frazier now has. Panda's slipped back, perhaps due to conditioning, but he is still young.

    I'd prefer a truly top star at one of these positions, but assuming money is an issue, Sandoval is a good choice IMO. He consistently OBPs over .340 and could add power to his normal season playing in GABP.
    The year before he had an .821 OPS, playing all over the field and hit .273.

    I can see him doing that with a normal .300 BABIP.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #22
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    The year before he had an .821 OPS, playing all over the field and hit .273.

    I can see him doing that with a normal .300 BABIP.
    I don't know how Frazier gets to a .300 BABIP if he continues to hit as in 2013.

    His ground ball rate spiked. Went from 33% to 42%. Huge increase in grounders.

    The increased grounders replaced line drives (rate down to 18.1% one of the lowest on the club) and his fly ball rate declined by five percentage points.

    A power hitter without top speed does himself no good constantly beating the ball into the ground. He also hurts his BABIP with a low line drive rate. He hurts his homers by a lower fly ball rate.

    These problems require work and change to rectify IMO. Not saying it can't be done, but it's not just random luck.

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  14. #23
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    Re: Choo

    I'd go after Sandoval if he's attainable. He's got a big body, but no one is incapable of losing weight. Put him on a strenuous cardio program, and make sure he cuts out the sweets and deep fried crap. Any personal trainer worth his salt could get him to drop 30 by spring.

    Or just fine him $1000 every time you catch him eating donuts...

    E: From the gifs thread:

    Last edited by jhiller21; 10-25-2013 at 01:50 AM.

  15. #24
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    Re: Choo

    "High-OBP players who have good plate discipline tend to age well."



    Highest OBP among position players(2008~2013)



    I think that Holliday is a comparable player to Choo and that if Reds re-sign Choo, he will become another version of Matt Holliday who has been consistently so good for the Cards.

    Matt Holliday(a Boras client) after signing a 7 yrs/$120M(10-16) contract.


  16. #25
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...medium=twitter

    MLBTR article on Choo's FA profile.

    The writer guesses that Choo gets 6 years at $100M which puts him at $16.67M a year.
    The key quote in that article is ""As a custom of the industry, prognostications by executives this time of year are dramatically divergent from the real market. I don't think anyone correctly predicted what Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford got."

    Granted, both of those contracts came before signing top free agents would require you to forfeit bonus money in the upcoming draft. Still, the more I think about Choo - and the Yankees wanting him, badly - the more I see him as a $120-$150 million guaranteed player.

    I think he will get 6 years with an AAV of $20-25 mil.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  17. #26
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    All I know is that this team is at a crossroads. Upper management fired Baker because he couldn't get them to the next level. And I have no problem with that decision. But there are no more scapegoats left. The pressure is squarely on Bob/Walt now. And if they lose one of the best lead-off guys - which appears very likely - have no solution for the #2 spot, and really the #4 spot, then it doesn't matter who the manager is next season IMO because Bryan Price can't walk on water.

    Its' going to take some bold (daring) off-season moves to seriously contend with the Cards and Pirates in 2014.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  19. #27
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Frazier hit .234 this year. I know all the chatter about BA being not important, but the guy is a corner player who hit .234.

    .
    Is it that you want the terrorists to win?

    I'm calling the NSA.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  20. #28
    Member wlf WV's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    I like Fraxier,my Mamaw was a Frazier. He can sing.
    May the Lord bless

  21. #29
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by jhiller21 View Post
    I'd go after Sandoval if he's attainable. He's got a big body, but no one is incapable of losing weight. Put him on a strenuous cardio program, and make sure he cuts out the sweets and deep fried crap. Any personal trainer worth his salt could get him to drop 30 by spring.

    Or just fine him $1000 every time you catch him eating donuts...

    E: From the gifs thread:

    so, in 5 years in SF, where he gained weight every year, and played for a team with a HUGE payroll, they couldn't find any trainers in one of the most health conscious states in the country? really?

    Dude is fat, he's going to get fatter and he's a statue at 3B.

    I repeat, offensively, he MIGHT be marginally better than Frazier. His last two seasons, it's probably a wash. Defensively it ain't close.

    You do not weaken 3B to strengthen LF. You strengthen LF by getting a LF.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  23. #30
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Weight issues be danged I just don't see how anyone can say Pablo Sandoval is not that much better than Todd Frazier. That blows my mind. I like Todd by all accounts he seems like a great guy , but I think he's an offensive liability. I think he is what he is at the plate. Some act like he's 23 or 24 yrs old and he's just totally going to turn things around. Reality is Frazier is 28, and that's not to say he can't improve, but I just don't see it.
    Last edited by SidneySlicker; 10-25-2013 at 11:07 AM.

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