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Thread: Choo

  1. #76
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Same argument over and over. his weight can be managed...

    except the Giants in 6 seasons could not get him to manage it.

    He has proven he is an elite hitter...

    ...in 2011, the last time he actually was one.

    Frazier has never proven he can hit...

    ...except last year when he had an .829 OPS while playing all over the field.

    Again why weaken yourself defensively, only to take on 8M in additional salary to not get any better than 22 singles on offense?

    That is exactly how much better Sandoval was. 22 singles.
    Talk about same arguments. I think it's pretty hilarious that you don't want to bring up Sandoval's past yet you go to Frazier's numbers from last year. If you are going to give validity to Frazier's OPS last year of .829 then you have to validate Sandoval's OPS of .900 2 seasons ago.

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  3. #77
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Same argument over and over. his weight can be managed...

    except the Giants in 6 seasons could not get him to manage it.

    He has proven he is an elite hitter...

    ...in 2011, the last time he actually was one.

    Frazier has never proven he can hit...

    ...except last year when he had an .829 OPS while playing all over the field.

    Again why weaken yourself defensively, only to take on 8M in additional salary to not get any better than 22 singles on offense?

    That is exactly how much better Sandoval was. 22 singles.
    It is the same argument over and over again. We are presenting the fact that Sandoval would add better, consistent offense to the Reds. You keep going back to 2011 saying that is the last time he was an elite hitter, but even if he is not the 2011 form of himself, he still produces pretty good offensive numbers every year.

    And you keep going back to Frazier being so good last year. He was a rookie, at age 27, and had not been properly scouted by other teams yet. He was given meatballs because he wasn't proven. Once they figured him out, his offense dropped, drastically. Swinging at garbage pitches and showing no plate discipline.

    Finally, you keep going to Pablo's weight. Yes he is a big guy and he has gained weight and he can fix it. But honestly, I do not care about his weight at this moment. Miguel Cabrera, Matt Adams, David Ortiz, Prince Fielder, and even Pedro Alvarez are all not the most athletic guys, yet they offense to their teams so they get starting spots. Cabrera and Alvarez are both at 3B as well, yet you do not see them exploited or losing games based on their defense. Instead, they are winning games on offense for their teams. That is what we need.
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

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  5. #78
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    because 2011 was a while ago. in 2012 he was at .789, over a 100 point drop. this year he's at .758. that's a trend. his weight goes up every year. his defense has eroded every year. We know a lot about Sandoval. Yes, if he dropped say 45 pounds, then he can be elite again offensively. But he's put on weight every year except 2011. That year he shed weight, hired a trainer and chef, and stayed in the U.S.

    But looking at JUST 2013, all he did was hit 22 more singles. He was worse in every other offensive category as far as counting stats.

    That ain't worth 8 million dollars.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #79
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    because 2011 was a while ago. in 2012 he was at .789, over a 100 point drop. this year he's at .758. that's a trend. his weight goes up every year. his defense has eroded every year. We know a lot about Sandoval. Yes, if he dropped say 45 pounds, then he can be elite again offensively. But he's put on weight every year except 2011. That year he shed weight, hired a trainer and chef, and stayed in the U.S.

    But looking at JUST 2013, all he did was hit 22 more singles. He was worse in every other offensive category as far as counting stats.

    That ain't worth 8 million dollars.
    He literally lost weight during the season this year. And his game got better after it happened. We're also completely ignoring park factors in this conversation.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  7. #80
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    He's also approaching maximum density.
    Not true.
    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-in-six-weeks/
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  8. #81
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Lots of talk of Headley and Sandoval coming in to play 3B, but I think a more realistic option is Aramis Ramirez...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #82
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Wow this is surprising:

    .266/.323/.384 with nine homers and 59 RBI in 104 games
    He ended the year at .278/.337/.417 and added 20 more RBIs

    Frazier's first 104 games: .252/.341/.415 and 49 RBIs

    He ended the year at .234/.314/.407 and added 24 RBIs

    Obviously Pablo's stats improved, pretty well, in every statistical category with only 22 lbs lost. The RBI difference between Frazier and Pablo are not surprising either, since the Reds were in a pennant chase with the top 2 OBP guys in the NL and the Giants were cellar dwelling in last in the NL West.
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

  10. #83
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Lots of talk of Headley and Sandoval coming in to play 3B, but I think a more realistic option is Aramis Ramirez...
    Ramirez's numbers do look nice, but he is 35 and will make $16M in 2014 and $14M in 2015 ($4M buyout). If we aquired him, I do not think we could get Choo too unless the Brewers eat his contract. Plus whoever we give the Brewers will be facing us 19 times a year too.
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

  11. #84
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Wow this is surprising:



    He ended the year at .278/.337/.417 and added 20 more RBIs

    Frazier's first 104 games: .252/.341/.415 and 49 RBIs

    He ended the year at .234/.314/.407 and added 24 RBIs

    Obviously Pablo's stats improved, pretty well, in every statistical category with only 22 lbs lost. The RBI difference between Frazier and Pablo are not surprising either, since the Reds were in a pennant chase with the top 2 OBP guys in the NL and the Giants were cellar dwelling in last in the NL West.
    Yet Frazier scored more runs with the likes of Mes and Cozart hitting after him. Says something to me.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #85
    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Yet Frazier scored more runs with the likes of Mes and Cozart hitting after him. Says something to me.
    Scoring runs means nothing but having the people behind you. Pablo was not used to score runs, he was used more for driving them in. The Giants moved him throughout the lineup because of the injuries they were dealing with this year.

    Batting Order:

    3rd 281 PA
    4th 83 PA
    5th 100 PA
    6th 117 PA
    9th 3 PA

    2013 Giants = 3.88 runs a game
    2013 Reds = 4.31 runs a game
    2014 Attendance 0-3
    3/31/14, 4/12/14, 8/14/15

    2013 Attendance: 6-0
    4/3/13, 4/16/13, 4/17/13, 8/3/13, 8/21/13, 9/7/13

  13. #86
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Sandovol and Frazier have basically been the same the last two years according to WAR. Trading Frazier for him just adds payroll, not wins.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  14. #87
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Anyone think Frazier could slide over to 2B if BP was moved?
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  15. #88
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    Anyone think Frazier could slide over to 2B if BP was moved?
    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Lots of talk of Headley and Sandoval coming in to play 3B, but I think a more realistic option is Aramis Ramirez...
    Don't just a drop a bomb about "Lots of talk about Headley" and switch gears to Aramis Ramirez.

    What do you know about Headley, and when did you know it?
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    *BaseClogger* (10-27-2013)

  17. #89
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Scoring runs means nothing but having the people behind you.
    Baserunning is a part of the game. Frazier is no speedster, but he dusts Panda.

  18. #90
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by jhiller21 View Post

    E: From the gifs thread:

    When I saw this I thought it was Kevin Mitchell LMAO!
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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