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Thread: Choo

  1. #121
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Not really. I don't trade Cueto for Sandoval. Like, ever.
    I'd give them Homer Bailey, though.

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  3. #122
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I can't buy into all these proposed lineups that end with Frazier, Cozart, Mesoraco, pitcher.

    Something has to improve from 6-8. Something.
    Well adding Sandoval ain't the answer.

    In the second half of 2013 (I use the second half because first word of Cozart's change in approach came in June, and his second half numbers weren't too bad) only 12 SS's with 200 PA's out OPS'd him. Of those 12, I see no one really available. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting.../OPS/minpa/200

    Now at catcher, there are options. M2 mentioned McCaan. I like Navarro. And there are others.

    To be fair, Sandoval had a much better second half than Frazier at the plate. Overall it was still a wash, as he'd have to actually play 3B. I believe Frazier can be a high .700- low .800 OPS bat next year for the same reason others believe in Sandoval; because that is what he was last season.

    I'm of a mind that the third highest scoring team in the NL doesn't need a ton of tweaking offensively, but there are question marks at LF and CF because of the incertainty about Choo and Hamilton. Anything else is just a distraction.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #123
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    I'd give them Homer Bailey, though.
    I'd send Bailey to Texas for Profar.

    no from me for Sandoval.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #124
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Well adding Sandoval ain't the answer.

    In the second half of 2013 (I use the second half because first word of Cozart's change in approach came in June, and his second half numbers weren't too bad) only 12 SS's with 200 PA's out OPS'd him. Of those 12, I see no one really available. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting.../OPS/minpa/200

    I'm willing to bet that the A's will shop Lowrie this offseason. And Drew will be available likely, but super expensive.

    But for the most part, teams with legit SS that can hit, cling to them for dear life. So you're right in upgrades may be hard to come by.


    If Choo signs elsewhere, I think the Reds should check the price on a Crisp/Lowrie package.

  6. #125
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    I'd give them Homer Bailey, though.
    You'd trade Bailey for Sandavol?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  7. #126
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    I'd love to see the Reds make a run at Austin Jackson. Good speed, excellent defender, can slide over to LF if/when Hamilton is ready. Gets on base. Has been nicked up a bit, and I'm not sure thay have someone to replace him, but he'd be on my list to at least make a call about.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #127
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    You'd trade Bailey for Sandavol?
    Not straight up, no. But somebody said Cueto for Sandoval and pitching prospects. No way on Cueto but I'd swap in Homer. It'd have to be in the context of other moves, though, because you just traded your best chip and still don't have a CF.

  9. #128
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Not straight up, no. But somebody said Cueto for Sandoval and pitching prospects. No way on Cueto but I'd swap in Homer. It'd have to be in the context of other moves, though, because you just traded your best chip and still don't have a CF.
    The last two seasons, Frazier and Sandoval have had essentially the same WAR. Why would you trade Homer for something you already have?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  11. #129
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    The last two seasons, Frazier and Sandoval have had essentially the same WAR. Why would you trade Homer for something you already have?
    I don't know. I assume we had other plans for Frazier? I wasn't really following the thread, just commenting on the trade value mostly. As in, giving Cueto in that trade idea was crazy, but I'd give Homer.

  12. #130
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post

    I'm of a mind that the third highest scoring team in the NL doesn't need a ton of tweaking offensively, but there are question marks at LF and CF because of the incertainty about Choo and Hamilton. Anything else is just a distraction.
    They don't need tweaking on offense. They need a mini-overhaul.

    The Reds had two hitters who were on base well over 600 times. Any capable offensive team would have run away with the league run scoring title, or close to it.

    The Reds finished fifth in a fifteen team league in W-L record. The team collapsed at the end, essentially for the third straight year. The team was tenth in the NL in SLG -- while playing at GABP -- and below average in BA.

    Is it the pitching? Doubt it.

    Is it the fielding? Doubt it.

    is it the offense? Bingo.

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    joshua (10-31-2013), LexRedsFan (10-28-2013), malcontent (10-28-2013), Norm Chortleton (11-03-2013), Old school 1983 (10-28-2013), Wonderful Monds (10-28-2013)

  14. #131
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    They don't need tweaking on offense. They need a mini-overhaul.
    Whatever they do, it can't be at the expense of LH/SH bats.

    St. Louis will in all likelihood start 5 RHP again. Then you have those tough RH relievers.

    Sandoval, Zobrist and Beltran would all be very interesting SH acquisitions.

    I'm edging toward the idea that the Reds should look at Beltran for 2 years instead of offering Choo a LTC.

    Especially considering that Hamilton, Ervin and Winker are their top position prospects.
    Last edited by malcontent; 10-28-2013 at 06:19 PM.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  15. #132
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    In defense of mth's position, it's not uncommon for lefty hitters to have some trouble with lefty pitchers. Teams let it slide because lefty/lefty matchups don't happen as frequently.

    But righty/righty matchups happen all the time. If a righty hitter has trouble hitting righty pitching, it's more of a problem because of the frequency with which these matchups occur.

    (If a lefty hitter can't hit lefties at all, then of course there would be a platoon. Bruce is not in that category.)
    I'm certainly not against platoons but, to me, Frazier is not a guy who mashes lefties and struggles against righties where it screams platoon. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know but that's my opinion

  16. #133
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    Whatever they do, it can't be at the expense of LH/SH bats.

    St. Louis will in all likelihood start 5 RHP again. Then you have those tough RH relievers.

    Sandoval, Zobrist and Beltran would all be very interesting SH acquisitions.

    I'm edging toward the idea that the Reds should look at Beltran for 2 years instead of offering Choo a LTC.

    Especially considering that Hamilton, Ervin and Winker are their top position prospects.
    I'd definitely be looking into Beltran for a couple years just for the reasons you suggest. Adds a plus bat without a long term commitment that would block potential prospects who'd come cheaper in the future. A Beltran ludwick platoon in left where Beltran gets the majority if the time would be a good thing IMO.

  17. #134
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    mth123, here is a question for you.

    Frazier(850 PA) vs R: .240 .316 .423 .323wOBA, 101wRC+
    Bruce(1058 PA) vs L: .234 .306 .438 .325wOBA, 99wRC+

    Is Bruce a platoon player, too?
    1. Bruce wasn't so splitty as a minor leaguer. Frazier has been so always.
    2. Bruce is significantly younger and deserves more patience. He began to figure it out at an age that is younger than Frazier was as a rookie.
    3. Until this year, Bruce should have been sitting against certain LHP
    4. As KC said, struggles righty/righty are much more detrimental to the team than struggles lefty/lefty because of the frequency of occurrence.
    5. I never suggested a straight platoon with Frazier, but there are certain RHPs he simply doesn't match-up with and given his minor league profile, it doesn't take 1000 PAs when what he's doing is simply a continuation of how he hit as a prospect and how he should have been projected.
    6. Frazier is 28 Years old, it's rare for guys to change at that age. If the Reds were a rebuilding team, you give him a season or two to play every day and see what happens. As a contender, you can't let him flounder and leave a position unproductive.

    If Frazier has a lefty hitting tandem partner who hits well against RHP, even in small doses, 3B has the potential to be a plus position offensively for the Reds. If Frazier is the full-time guy, the position looks to be average to below most years with maybe a BABIP driven lucky season where he grades out as above average offensively. This team has a lot of meh around the diamond with only 1B and RF being plus spots offensively. If the team can make a move to convert 3B into a plus spot by limiting FRazier's PT and adding a tandem partner, they should do it.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  18. #135
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    Re: Choo

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    1. Bruce wasn't so splitty as a minor leaguer. Frazier has been so always.
    2. Bruce is significantly younger and deserves more patience. He began to figure it out at an age that is younger than Frazier was as a rookie.
    3. Until this year, Bruce should have been sitting against certain LHP
    4. As KC said, struggles righty/righty are much more detrimental to the team than struggles lefty/lefty because of the frequency of occurrence.
    5. I never suggested a straight platoon with Frazier, but there are certain RHPs he simply doesn't match-up with and given his minor league profile, it doesn't take 1000 PAs when what he's doing is simply a continuation of how he hit as a prospect and how he should have been projected.
    6. Frazier is 28 Years old, it's rare for guys to change at that age. If the Reds were a rebuilding team, you give him a season or two to play every day and see what happens. As a contender, you can't let him flounder and leave a position unproductive.

    If Frazier has a lefty hitting tandem partner who hits well against RHP, even in small doses, 3B has the potential to be a plus position offensively for the Reds. If Frazier is the full-time guy, the position looks to be average to below most years with maybe a BABIP driven lucky season where he grades out as above average offensively. This team has a lot of meh around the diamond with only 1B and RF being plus spots offensively. If the team can make a move to convert 3B into a plus spot by limiting FRazier's PT and adding a tandem partner, they should do it.
    How about Brandon Phillips?

    Phillips(4104 PA) vs R: .265 .313 .409 .315wOBA, 90wRC+

    Batters vs R(2012~2013)

    Last edited by junkhead; 10-29-2013 at 01:10 AM.


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