Choo

[PepperJack]

Well adding Sandoval ain't the answer.

In the second half of 2013 (I use the second half because first word of Cozart's change in approach came in June, and his second half numbers weren't too bad) only 12 SS's with 200 PA's out OPS'd him. Of those 12, I see no one really available. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting.../OPS/minpa/200

I'm willing to bet that the A's will shop Lowrie this offseason. And Drew will be available likely, but super expensive.

But for the most part, teams with legit SS that can hit, cling to them for dear life. So you're right in upgrades may be hard to come by.


If Choo signs elsewhere, I think the Reds should check the price on a Crisp/Lowrie package.

[CySeymour]

I'd give them Homer Bailey, though.

You'd trade Bailey for Sandavol?

[TRF]

I'd love to see the Reds make a run at Austin Jackson. Good speed, excellent defender, can slide over to LF if/when Hamilton is ready. Gets on base. Has been nicked up a bit, and I'm not sure thay have someone to replace him, but he'd be on my list to at least make a call about.

[kpresidente]

You'd trade Bailey for Sandavol?

Not straight up, no. But somebody said Cueto for Sandoval and pitching prospects. No way on Cueto but I'd swap in Homer. It'd have to be in the context of other moves, though, because you just traded your best chip and still don't have a CF.

[CySeymour]

Not straight up, no. But somebody said Cueto for Sandoval and pitching prospects. No way on Cueto but I'd swap in Homer. It'd have to be in the context of other moves, though, because you just traded your best chip and still don't have a CF.

The last two seasons, Frazier and Sandoval have had essentially the same WAR. Why would you trade Homer for something you already have?

[kpresidente]

The last two seasons, Frazier and Sandoval have had essentially the same WAR. Why would you trade Homer for something you already have?

I don't know. I assume we had other plans for Frazier? I wasn't really following the thread, just commenting on the trade value mostly. As in, giving Cueto in that trade idea was crazy, but I'd give Homer.

[Kc61]

I'm of a mind that the third highest scoring team in the NL doesn't need a ton of tweaking offensively, but there are question marks at LF and CF because of the incertainty about Choo and Hamilton. Anything else is just a distraction.

They don't need tweaking on offense. They need a mini-overhaul.

The Reds had two hitters who were on base well over 600 times. Any capable offensive team would have run away with the league run scoring title, or close to it.

The Reds finished fifth in a fifteen team league in W-L record. The team collapsed at the end, essentially for the third straight year. The team was tenth in the NL in SLG -- while playing at GABP -- and below average in BA.

Is it the pitching? Doubt it.

Is it the fielding? Doubt it.

is it the offense? Bingo.

[malcontent]

They don't need tweaking on offense. They need a mini-overhaul.

Whatever they do, it can't be at the expense of LH/SH bats.

St. Louis will in all likelihood start 5 RHP again. Then you have those tough RH relievers.

Sandoval, Zobrist and Beltran would all be very interesting SH acquisitions.

I'm edging toward the idea that the Reds should look at Beltran for 2 years instead of offering Choo a LTC.

Especially considering that Hamilton, Ervin and Winker are their top position prospects.

[MoneyInTheBank]

In defense of mth's position, it's not uncommon for lefty hitters to have some trouble with lefty pitchers. Teams let it slide because lefty/lefty matchups don't happen as frequently.

But righty/righty matchups happen all the time. If a righty hitter has trouble hitting righty pitching, it's more of a problem because of the frequency with which these matchups occur.

(If a lefty hitter can't hit lefties at all, then of course there would be a platoon. Bruce is not in that category.)

I'm certainly not against platoons but, to me, Frazier is not a guy who mashes lefties and struggles against righties where it screams platoon. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know but that's my opinion

[Old school 1983]

Whatever they do, it can't be at the expense of LH/SH bats.

St. Louis will in all likelihood start 5 RHP again. Then you have those tough RH relievers.

Sandoval, Zobrist and Beltran would all be very interesting SH acquisitions.

I'm edging toward the idea that the Reds should look at Beltran for 2 years instead of offering Choo a LTC.

Especially considering that Hamilton, Ervin and Winker are their top position prospects.

I'd definitely be looking into Beltran for a couple years just for the reasons you suggest. Adds a plus bat without a long term commitment that would block potential prospects who'd come cheaper in the future. A Beltran ludwick platoon in left where Beltran gets the majority if the time would be a good thing IMO.

[mth123]

mth123, here is a question for you.

Frazier(850 PA) vs R: .240 .316 .423 .323wOBA, 101wRC+
Bruce(1058 PA) vs L: .234 .306 .438 .325wOBA, 99wRC+

Is Bruce a platoon player, too?

1. Bruce wasn't so splitty as a minor leaguer. Frazier has been so always.
2. Bruce is significantly younger and deserves more patience. He began to figure it out at an age that is younger than Frazier was as a rookie.
3. Until this year, Bruce should have been sitting against certain LHP
4. As KC said, struggles righty/righty are much more detrimental to the team than struggles lefty/lefty because of the frequency of occurrence.
5. I never suggested a straight platoon with Frazier, but there are certain RHPs he simply doesn't match-up with and given his minor league profile, it doesn't take 1000 PAs when what he's doing is simply a continuation of how he hit as a prospect and how he should have been projected.
6. Frazier is 28 Years old, it's rare for guys to change at that age. If the Reds were a rebuilding team, you give him a season or two to play every day and see what happens. As a contender, you can't let him flounder and leave a position unproductive.

If Frazier has a lefty hitting tandem partner who hits well against RHP, even in small doses, 3B has the potential to be a plus position offensively for the Reds. If Frazier is the full-time guy, the position looks to be average to below most years with maybe a BABIP driven lucky season where he grades out as above average offensively. This team has a lot of meh around the diamond with only 1B and RF being plus spots offensively. If the team can make a move to convert 3B into a plus spot by limiting FRazier's PT and adding a tandem partner, they should do it.

[757690]

I can't buy into all these proposed lineups that end with Frazier, Cozart, Mesoraco, pitcher.

Something has to improve from 6-8. Something.

Really not much worse than what Red Sox and Cardinal fans had to deal with this season, and they were top offensives in their leagues. Most teams have two or three great hitters, two or three good hitters and two or three bad hitters. Reds need better hitters, true, but so does every team.

[cincinnati chili]

If you believe that you'd be getting the Panda of 2009 and 2011, you trade Homer for him without hesitation and push Frazier into a platoon role. But I don't see why we should have any confidence that Panda can stay healthy and productive in 2014. There are probably surer things out there if you want to trade Homer for a bat.

[757690]

The chart above absolutely shows what I said to be true.

Cards constantly had Kozma, Jay, Freese and/or Descalso at the bottom of their lineup.

Red Sox had Drew, and Middlebrooks and sometimes Ross at the bottom of theirs. They had the DH, so their lineup will obviously be deeper.

Those really aren't much better options than Fraizer, Cozart and Mes.

[757690]

Reds: 2 great hitters, 1 good hitter, 2 average hitters and 9 bad hitters.
Cards: 2 great hitters, 4 good hitters, 2 average hitters and 4 bad hitters.
Red Sox: 1 great hitter, 8 good hitters, 2 above-average hitters and 3 bad hitters.

In their everyday lineup, all three teams have bad hitters at the bottom of their lineup.

Red Sox and Cardinals have more good hitters than the Reds. Not exactly a news flash. But all three have bad hitters at the end of their lineup.