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Thread: NL RF Gold Glove Award

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    Member BungleBengals's Avatar
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    NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Rawlings tweeted the finalists for the RF GG award:

    Jay Bruce
    Jason Heyward
    Gerardo Parra

    I think it is Bruce's to lose...
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    Rawlings tweeted the finalists for the RF GG award:

    Jay Bruce
    Jason Heyward
    Gerardo Parra

    I think it is Bruce's to lose...
    I think Parra is the easily best defensive corner OF in the NL.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think Parra is the easily best defensive corner OF in the NL.
    You mean to tell me that the GG is about the best defensive player? You need to tell the voters this. I thought offense and politics were a big part of the equation too by looking at past winners.
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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think Parra is the easily best defensive corner OF in the NL.
    You're one of my favorite posters, Rick, so honest questions here: How many of Parra's games did you see this year, and do opponents fear his arm as much as they fear Bruce's? That's the thing I love most about Jay Bruce -- the number of times runners refuse to even attempt an extra base on him -- and something that doesn't show up in any statistical category. It happens seemingly every game with Jay, and many times more than once.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    BungleBengals (10-25-2013)

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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    That's the thing I love most about Jay Bruce -- the number of times runners refuse to even attempt an extra base on him -- and something that doesn't show up in any statistical category. It happens seemingly every game with Jay, and many times more than once.
    Baseball Reference actually has some pretty interesting stats on this. Scroll down to the advanced fielding section and check out the "held" stat.

    Granted, the stat doesn't seem to take into account, say, how deep the fly ball was or how fast the runner was, but I thought it still made for interesting reading.

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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    You're one of my favorite posters, Rick, so honest questions here: How many of Parra's games did you see this year, and do opponents fear his arm as much as they fear Bruce's? That's the thing I love most about Jay Bruce -- the number of times runners refuse to even attempt an extra base on him -- and something that doesn't show up in any statistical category. It happens seemingly every game with Jay, and many times more than once.
    I thought I was your favorite!

    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Raindog View Post
    I thought I was your favorite!

    Haha, I said "one of" my favs. You'll always be on my sentimental list, due to the fact we were both lowlifes on Sundeck at the same time.

    Long live the Sundeck scrubs.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by LegallyMinded View Post
    Baseball Reference actually has some pretty interesting stats on this. Scroll down to the advanced fielding section and check out the "held" stat.

    Granted, the stat doesn't seem to take into account, say, how deep the fly ball was or how fast the runner was, but I thought it still made for interesting reading.
    The fact that Jay Bruce ranks middle of the pack in overall "held", and far below the leaders, makes me question this stat. As you said, there's still a lot of variables missing, but interesting nonetheless. Thanks for posting it.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    joshua (10-26-2013)

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    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Haha, I said "one of" my favs. You'll always be on my sentimental list, due to the fact we were both lowlifes on Sundeck at the same time.

    Long live the Sundeck scrubs.
    I still live the life of a lowlife...
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: NL RF Gold Glove Award

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    You're one of my favorite posters, Rick, so honest questions here: How many of Parra's games did you see this year, and do opponents fear his arm as much as they fear Bruce's? That's the thing I love most about Jay Bruce -- the number of times runners refuse to even attempt an extra base on him -- and something that doesn't show up in any statistical category. It happens seemingly every game with Jay, and many times more than once.
    I've watched maybe a dozen D'Backs games over the past few years and Parra's arm is as good if not better than Bruce's. The fans at Tango's fan scouting report also rate Parra's arm as better than Bruce's.

    http://www.tangotiger.net/scout/inde...&prim_fld_cd=9

    (They basically have Parra with a slight edge over Bruce, Reddick and Francouer as the best RF arms in baseball)

    But frankly when it comes to measuring production, our eyes can be deceiving. The human brain is simply not wired to aggregate small events over time with much accuracy. We remember big, unusual, exciting things. And then, once we we see those things, we watch for them. Sort of like noticing all the cars like yours after you buy a new one. We watch Bruce every day and remember him gunning a guy down. And because of that one exciting moment, we then start anticipating it and we start noticing all the times it comes in to play.

    But we don't watch other guys, we don't adjust to them and starting watching them closely. And so our guys start to feel exceptional -- further away from average than they actually are, in both directions. Of course, Bruce actually does have a really, really good arm. But the point stands; we lack perspective.

    When it comes to evaluating defensive ability, sure, I'm going to want a scouting report. But when it comes to production, the aggregate of performance over time, I'm still going to start with the data. And FWIW, Fangraphs' defensive metric DOES account for an OFs limiting baserunning advancement on reputation.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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