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Thread: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

  1. #1
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Here's mine. LHP Marshall for LHP Alex Wood.

    Removing Marshall's $12M for the next two years in addition to the $24M saved by moving BP for Uggla would certainly free up a lot of dinero. Wood isn't eligible for arbitration until 2016.

    OK. Marshall's shoulder probably kills the deal. So what are the other possibilities? Or is Uggla a deal-breaker?
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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  3. #2
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    If Uggla is the main course, I'm going on a hunger strike.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  5. #3
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    If Uggla is the main course, I'm going on a hunger strike.
    LOL. C'mon, M2. You'll never know if you don't try that first little bite.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  6. #4
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Since 1969 only 93 guys 34 and older have had 400 PA's as 2nd basemen, only36 time sdid they have better than the league average in OPS (and most of the guys who did that are your Morgans, Kents, Griches)


    Code:
    SEASON
    1969-2013
    2B
    AGE > 33
    OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    OPS                           YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     OBA      SLG      AGE    
    1    Jeff Kent                2002     .170     .933     .763     .028     .142       34   Giants
    2    Lou Whitaker             1991     .157     .881     .724     .062     .095       34   Tigers
    3    Bobby Grich              1983     .146     .874     .728     .087     .059       34   Angels
    4    Bret Boone               2003     .139     .902     .762     .033     .107       34   Mariners
    5    Lou Whitaker             1992     .134     .847     .713     .058     .076       35   Tigers
    6    Joe Morgan               1982     .123     .838     .715     .071     .052       38   Giants
    7    Jeff Kent                2005     .122     .889     .767     .038     .084       37   Dodgers
    8    Lou Whitaker             1993     .116     .861     .745     .074     .041       36   Tigers
    9    Ray Durham               2006     .113     .898     .785     .017     .096       34   Giants
    10   Davey Lopes              1979     .102     .836     .734     .037     .065       34   Dodgers
    11   Jeff Kent                2004     .101     .880     .778     .007     .095       36   Astros
    12   Chase Utley              2013     .100     .823     .723     .026     .074       34   Phillies
    13   Jeff Kent                2007     .097     .875     .778     .033     .064       39   Dodgers
    14   Tony Taylor              1970     .089     .837     .748     .035     .055       34   Phillies
    15   Jeff Kent                2003     .089     .860     .771     .011     .078       35   Astros
    16   Toby Harrah              1985     .088     .820     .733     .104    -.017       36   Rangers
    17   Bobby Grich              1984     .084     .809     .724     .031     .054       35   Angels
    18   Jeff Kent                2006     .076     .861     .785     .042     .035       38   Dodgers
    19   Willie Randolph          1991     .074     .798     .724     .096    -.021       36   Brewers
    20   Tony Fernandez           1998     .073     .846     .773     .047     .026       36   Blue Jays
    21   Craig Biggio             2001     .058     .838     .780     .042     .015       35   Astros
    22   Randy Velarde            1999     .057     .845     .788     .043     .015       36   Angels/A's
    23   Joe Morgan               1983     .052     .773     .722     .038     .013       39   Phillies
    24   Frank White              1986     .049     .787     .737    -.008     .057       35   Royals
    25   Ray Durham               2008     .047     .813     .765     .041     .006       36   Giants/Brewers
    26   Davey Lopes              1983     .036     .764     .728     .014     .022       38   A's
    27   Jose Valentin            2006     .035     .820     .785    -.013     .048       36   Mets
    28   Craig Biggio             2005     .026     .792     .767    -.014     .040       39   Astros
    29   Joe Morgan               1980     .023     .740     .716     .038    -.014       36   Astros
    30   Joe Morgan               1979     .022     .756     .734     .045    -.023       35   Reds
    31   Joe Morgan               1978     .017     .733     .715     .017     .000       34   Reds
    32   Marco Scutaro            2012     .012     .753     .740     .021    -.009       36   Rockies/Giants
    33   Mark Grudzielanek        2007     .010     .772     .762     .007     .002       37   Royals
    34   Tony Phillips            1999     .007     .795     .788     .014    -.007       40   A's
    35   Craig Counsell           2009     .005     .766     .761     .019    -.014       38   Brewers
    36   Marco Scutaro            2013     .002     .726     .723     .034    -.032       37   Giants
    37   Ryne Sandberg            1996    -.001     .760     .761    -.023     .022       36   Cubs
    38   Scott Fletcher           1993    -.002     .743     .745     .004    -.006       34   Red Sox
    39   Bobby Grich              1985    -.006     .727     .733     .028    -.034       36   Angels
    40   Tony Phillips            1997    -.006     .764     .770     .035    -.041       38   White Sox/Angels
    41   Willie Randolph          1989    -.008     .692     .699     .044    -.052       34   Dodgers
    42   Jay Bell                 2000    -.012     .786     .797    -.002    -.009       34   Diamondbacks
    43   Bill Doran               1992    -.015     .691     .706     .018    -.033       34   Reds
    44   Craig Biggio             2000    -.017     .780     .797     .037    -.054       34   Astros
    45   Joe Morgan               1984    -.017     .707     .724     .030    -.047       40   A's
    46   Cookie Rojas             1973    -.018     .692     .710    -.008    -.009       34   Royals
    47   Jeff Kent                2008    -.020     .745     .765    -.012    -.008       40   Dodgers
    48   Tony Fernandez           1997    -.023     .746     .770    -.017    -.006       35   Indians
    49   Jamey Carroll            2011    -.024     .706     .730     .032    -.056       36   Dodgers
    50   Luis Alicea              2000    -.025     .769     .794     .016    -.041       34   Rangers
    51   Mark Grudzielanek        2005    -.025     .741     .767    -.005    -.020       35   Cardinals
    52   Craig Biggio             2002    -.029     .734     .763    -.010    -.019       36   Astros
    53   Jay Bell                 2001    -.031     .749     .780     .010    -.040       35   Diamondbacks
    54   Bret Boone               2004    -.032     .740     .773    -.021    -.011       35   Mariners
    55   Frank White              1985    -.035     .698     .733    -.043     .008       34   Royals
    56   Mark Grudzielanek        2006    -.038     .740     .778    -.009    -.029       36   Royals
    57   Randy Velarde            2000    -.040     .754     .794     .004    -.044       37   A's
    58   Craig Counsell           2005    -.041     .726     .767     .011    -.052       34   Diamondbacks
    59   Mark Ellis               2012    -.043     .697     .740     .007    -.050       35   Dodgers
    60   Tony Womack              2004    -.044     .735     .778     .008    -.052       34   Cardinals
    61   Eric Young               2003    -.044     .727     .771    -.005    -.039       36   Brewers/Giants
    62   Cookie Rojas             1974    -.046     .649     .694    -.014    -.032       35   Royals
    63   Mark Ellis               2013    -.050     .674     .723     .000    -.050       36   Dodgers
    64   Frank White              1987    -.051     .708     .759    -.025    -.026       36   Royals
    65   Davey Lopes              1980    -.051     .665     .716    -.008    -.044       35   Dodgers
    66   Eric Young               2001    -.053     .726     .780    -.006    -.047       34   Cubs
    67   Willie Randolph          1990    -.054     .664     .718     .011    -.065       35   Dodgers/A's
    68   Roberto Alomar           2002    -.055     .708     .763    -.008    -.047       34   Mets
    69   Davey Lopes              1982    -.056     .675     .730    -.024    -.031       37   A's
    70   Jim Gantner              1989    -.056     .654     .709    -.004    -.051       36   Brewers
    71   Tom Herr                 1990    -.056     .672     .728    -.006    -.050       34   Phillies/Mets
    72   Ryne Sandberg            1997    -.056     .711     .767    -.034    -.022       37   Cubs
    73   Eric Young               2002    -.056     .707     .763    -.002    -.054       35   Brewers
    74   Jim Gantner              1988    -.057     .658     .715    -.003    -.055       35   Brewers
    75   Craig Biggio             2006    -.058     .727     .785    -.037    -.021       40   Astros
    76   Mark McLemore            1999    -.059     .729     .788     .016    -.074       34   Rangers
    77   Aaron Miles              2011    -.070     .660     .730    -.012    -.057       34   Dodgers
    78   Mark Loretta             2006    -.072     .706     .778     .005    -.077       34   Red Sox
    79   Jamey Carroll            2012    -.072     .660     .733     .023    -.095       37   Twins
    80   Frank White              1989    -.075     .635     .709    -.019    -.056       38   Royals
    81   Luis Alicea              2001    -.076     .687     .763    -.014    -.062       35   Royals
    82   Cookie Rojas             1975    -.081     .626     .707    -.024    -.056       36   Royals
    83   Roberto Alomar           2003    -.085     .682     .767    -.004    -.081       35   Mets/White Sox
    84   Ted Sizemore             1979    -.090     .645     .736    -.019    -.071       34   Cubs/Red Sox
    85   Mark Ellis               2011    -.097     .634     .731    -.037    -.060       34   A's/Rockies
    86   David Eckstein           2010    -.098     .647     .745    -.011    -.087       35   Padres
    87   David Eckstein           2009    -.104     .657     .761    -.016    -.088       34   Padres
    88   Craig Biggio             2007    -.112     .666     .778    -.057    -.055       41   Astros
    89   Frank White              1988    -.120     .595     .715    -.059    -.061       37   Royals
    90   Mark McLemore            2000    -.125     .669     .794     .003    -.128       35   Mariners
    91   Manny Trillo             1985    -.140     .576     .715    -.040    -.099       34   Giants
    92   Ray Durham               2007    -.140     .638     .778    -.047    -.093       35   Giants
    93   Mickey Morandini         2000    -.161     .635     .796    -.028    -.133       34   Phillies/Blue Jays

  7. #5
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Since 1969 only 93 guys 34 and older have had 400 PA's as 2nd basemen, only36 time sdid they have better than the league average in OPS (and most of the guys who did that are your Morgans, Kents, Griches)
    But Phillips' contract pays him through his age 36 season.

    I admit I wanted no part of Uggla when I read the first trade rumor. But given that he is only a little over a year older than Phillips, I do think it's very possible that he would out-OPS BP given the change in environment and ballpark.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    But Phillips' contract pays him through his age 36 season.

    I admit I wanted no part of Uggla when I read the first trade rumor. But given that he is only a little over a year older than Phillips, I do think it's very possible that he would out-OPS BP given the change in environment and ballpark.
    His decline will come with a glove and the ability to run.

    Ugglas will come with a bucket of K's and a glove made of stone.

    I prefer to move Phillips for someone alive

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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    LOL. C'mon, M2. You'll never know if you don't try that first little bite.
    just one thin wafer Mr. Creosote!
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

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    throws 106. NBD.
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Raindog View Post
    just one thin wafer Mr. Creosote!
    Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up.

  13. #9
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
    Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up.
    Tough crowd. I'll take that as a "leans no".
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  14. #10
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    In Uggla, you have the rare player whose name describes his performance.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I do think it's very possible that he would out-OPS BP given the change in environment and ballpark.
    Not if he continues to K 30% of the time

  17. #12
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Not if he continues to K 30% of the time
    I agree. I also don't know what effect, if any, the Lasik surgery will have going forward.

    I'm intrigued by Wood, and view Marshall's return to form as very questionable....not that we've ever been given much info in that regard.

    The savings of the proposed deal could obviously go a long way toward re-signing Choo. Like I said, I question whether Atlanta would even sign off on it.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  18. #13
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    3 Way deal with the Angels and Braves (too much of a slobberknocker with too many players for anything like it to actually happen though all three teams come out OK IMO).

    Atlanta Gets: Brandon Phillips and Jack Hannahan

    LA Angels Get: Dan Uggla, Homer Bailey, Ryan Hanigan and Sean Marshall

    Reds Get: Howie Kendrick, Chris Iannetta, Garrett Richards, Chris Nelson, Alex Wood, Taylor Lindsay

    Money works. Phillps/Hanigan offset Kendrick/Iannetta with long term money freed. Bailey, Hannahan and Marshall free plenty to sign Choo, Chapman to the Rotation (crosses fingers as a skeptic), re-sign Parra and find an IF reserve or two.

    Choo CF
    Kendrick 2B
    Votto 1B
    Bruce RF
    Ludwick LF
    Iannatta/Mesoraco C
    Frazier 3B
    Cozart SS

    Heisey (R) OF
    Paul (L) OF
    Nelson (R) IF

    Latos
    Cueto
    Cingrani
    Leake
    Chapman

    Richards (SW)
    Broxton (R)
    Simon (R)
    Wood (L)
    Parra (L)
    Lecure (R)
    Hoover (CL)
    Last edited by mth123; 10-26-2013 at 06:09 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  19. #14
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Lot of moving parts in that trade. However, I get the sense that we'll end up with Kendrick.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  20. #15
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    Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Lot of moving parts in that trade. However, I get the sense that we'll end up with Kendrick.
    Yeah, I agree. Whatever happens, I think there will need to be two or three moves as part of an overall retooling where money is reallocated from the pen, a couple kids are added to restock and one trade begets another to fill holes created by the previous deal. I proposed one deal that does most of the work, but I recognize that a deal like that is unlikely regardless of the names involved. If it's not a busy off-season with multiple deals, I just don't see how the team will fill it's holes and keep it's budget.

    A huge jump in payroll could do it, but I just don't think a $25 to $30 Million jump is likely. Payroll is going up even if they do nothing, so adding a bat or two is going to require deals cutting in other spots IMO.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-26-2013 at 01:11 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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