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Thread: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

  1. #1
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    A) Brandon has taken a lot of heat for his altercation with C Trent. He lost his temper and what he did was wrong. That being said, Trent's analysis of Phillips being moved in the order was unfair, and not for SABR vs. traditional reasons. Phillips was in a role where he was being ASKED to drive in runs by management, and he did what he was told. In fact, he has always complied with what has been asked of him for the team. This is an admirable trait, whether you agree with the baseball philosophy or not. Trent seemed to be implying that Phillips had a limited ability to bat at the top of the order, when the truth was he was being asked to fulfill a role in a certain way, making those stats not tell the whole story. Trent's analysis SHOULD have been challenged, though not in that way.
    B) Doc seemed to imply in his column that BP thinks the beats are trying to get him traded. I can see this being true. They saw one of their own get attacked and they want BP out. The beats are a pretty cowardly bunch. They know their job depends on access and they're not going to write anything hugely critical, because they know the club could limit their access. Know I'm not talking about Doc, who is not a beat, but a sports journalist. He doesn't cover the games themselves. But the beats just want access, so they loved Dusty who gave them that. But players like Phillips, who will occasionally withhold access, they don't like. Much of what beats write has nothing to do with baseball; rather, opinions are often crafted to reward or punish people relative to how easy they make the beats' job.
    C) Other players don't like what Phillips does with fans. It sets the bar too high. The LAST thing some of the players want to do with their free time is go to a kid's little league game, like BP has done. Or reply to emails and tweets. Or sign autographs EVERY game. Phillips gives back, and some of the other players do not want to have to do that. That's what it means when they say he's "self promoting" or "showing them up." Many players don't want the boat rocked with their "us vs. them" attitude about the fans, and Phillips is inclusive of the fans, a no no in their book.
    D) It has been said Phillips only cares about his own stats and not the team winning or losing. If this were true, it would be contrary to everything he has ever said, and everything he has ever done (e.g., moving around in the batting order.) I have a very hard time believing it, and frankly think it's a bunch of subjective nonsense by someone with a bone to pick.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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  4. #2
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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    BP has been in a battle with the Reds beat writers since the day he arrived in Cincinnati, and it mostly was his fault. That incident with C.Trent likely happens on a regular basis, that one was just on camera. I doubt they are trying to get him traded, but I'm sure they would jump on any hint of trouble surrounding him.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
    óBill Cosby

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Phillips was in a role where he was being ASKED to drive in runs by management, and he did what he was told.
    And it was the right thing to ask. A lot of energy is expended on Votto and BP, for different reasons, from different sectors. Votto doesn't knock 'em in, BP doesn't get on base.

    After Votto and Choo, BP didn't need to be an on-base guy, a bridge to the Cozarts, Frazier and Xavier Pauls. He needed to catalyze that on-base action in front of him. Check. The problem was what came after BP.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    A) Brandon has taken a lot of heat for his altercation with C Trent. He lost his temper and what he did was wrong. That being said, Trent's analysis of Phillips being moved in the order was unfair, and not for SABR vs. traditional reasons. Phillips was in a role where he was being ASKED to drive in runs by management, and he did what he was told. In fact, he has always complied with what has been asked of him for the team. This is an admirable trait, whether you agree with the baseball philosophy or not. Trent seemed to be implying that Phillips had a limited ability to bat at the top of the order, when the truth was he was being asked to fulfill a role in a certain way, making those stats not tell the whole story. Trent's analysis SHOULD have been challenged, though not in that way.
    B) Doc seemed to imply in his column that BP thinks the beats are trying to get him traded. I can see this being true. They saw one of their own get attacked and they want BP out. The beats are a pretty cowardly bunch. They know their job depends on access and they're not going to write anything hugely critical, because they know the club could limit their access. Know I'm not talking about Doc, who is not a beat, but a sports journalist. He doesn't cover the games themselves. But the beats just want access, so they loved Dusty who gave them that. But players like Phillips, who will occasionally withhold access, they don't like. Much of what beats write has nothing to do with baseball; rather, opinions are often crafted to reward or punish people relative to how easy they make the beats' job.
    C) Other players don't like what Phillips does with fans. It sets the bar too high. The LAST thing some of the players want to do with their free time is go to a kid's little league game, like BP has done. Or reply to emails and tweets. Or sign autographs EVERY game. Phillips gives back, and some of the other players do not want to have to do that. That's what it means when they say he's "self promoting" or "showing them up." Many players don't want the boat rocked with their "us vs. them" attitude about the fans, and Phillips is inclusive of the fans, a no no in their book.
    D) It has been said Phillips only cares about his own stats and not the team winning or losing. If this were true, it would be contrary to everything he has ever said, and everything he has ever done (e.g., moving around in the batting order.) I have a very hard time believing it, and frankly think it's a bunch of subjective nonsense by someone with a bone to pick.
    I would pretty much take the opposite view of every point you just made.
    A. Ctrent said nothing wrong or inherently nerdy
    B. Phillips is treated fairly by the daily media surrounding this team. If you want unfairly, listen to the Brennamen's spew garbage about Bailey and Votto.
    C. Phillips knows that a good portion of his value is all the fan accessibility. I would trade all of that for playoff wins.
    D. See what he actually said to Ctrent.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Just about everything you hear and read from the participants in the latest WS mention chemistry, effort, likeability/ "brotherhood", as a common bond for their success.....and of course talent. If BP is the bad teammate, causes angst in the clubhouse, not pulling on the same rope as the rest, then he should be moved, in spite of his talent. Problem is nobody's naming names on the Reds, although plenty have made the innuendos. Who are they? I guess we'll find out if/when BP is traded...or not.

  10. #6

    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    #1There is no excuse for what BP said to C Trent. The things that Brandon said about the owner was much worse than what C Trent said about BP.

    #2 By the way that BP played the 2nd,half .Maybe he should have hit in the 6th or 7th hole in the order.

    #3 Did you ever wonder why that the Indians gave away such talented team player? (I have)

    #4 Why did he feel the need to bad mouth the Team Owner that gave him a contract that he shouldn't have gotten?

    These things I do know, Other than that I don't know him personally ,He could be a great teammate as far as I know.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    #3 Did you ever wonder why that the Indians gave away such talented team player? (I have)
    Two words: Eric Wedge.

    Wedge and Phillips evidently didn't get along, and Wedge wanted him gone. (Eric Wedge is reviled by many of the Tribe fans I know because of this.)
    "Knowledge Is Good." -- Emil Faber

  12. #8

    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Two words: Eric Wedge.

    Wedge and Phillips evidently didn't get along, and Wedge wanted him gone. (Eric Wedge is reviled by many of the Tribe fans I know because of this.)
    But my question is why?
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    #3 Did you ever wonder why that the Indians gave away such talented team player? (I have)
    He was out of minor league options and was not producing on the MLB level.

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    He was out of minor league options and was not producing on the MLB level.
    And you know this as a fact?
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    But my question is why?
    I don't know, but my friends who are Tribe fans (and there are a substantial number of Indians fans in the area where I live) all considered it a flaw on Wedge's part.
    "Knowledge Is Good." -- Emil Faber

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    And you know this as a fact?
    I know for a fact he was out of minor league options and wasn't producing at the MLB level.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/0...ars-later.html

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  19. #13
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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    If Phillips is traded because he bad mouthed the owner, we've got much bigger problems than Phillips' talent level.

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    He was out of minor league options and was not producing on the MLB level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba View Post
    And you know this as a fact?
    Those are facts. He was out of options and his bat hadn't developed like the Indians had expected.

    He also was still a young and immature player whose personality clashed with Eric Wedge's authoritarian approach. He was a player who needed a change of scenery, and as soon as he got out of Cleveland he thrived. (I think that is partly because his eyes were opened after being traded.)

    No offense, but I don't think there is anything to see here. I'm sure Phillips can be annoying at times, but if he were truly a bad teammate, divisive element, or "clubhouse cancer", it would have surfaced long before now, and the Reds likely would not have had three postseason appearances in the last four years.
    "Knowledge Is Good." -- Emil Faber

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    Re: In DEFENSE of Brandon Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post

    No offense, but I don't think there is anything to see here. I'm sure Phillips can be annoying at times, but if he were truly a bad teammate, divisive element, or "clubhouse cancer", it would have surfaced long before now, and the Reds likely would not have had three postseason appearances in the last four years.

    I don't think any fan can ever really know what goes on in the clubhouse. That said there have been murmurs about Phillips for years.

    Some guys will just brush it off as "Brandon being Brandon" and that works while the team is winning, and everything is going smoothly. That rubs guys the wrong way when times are tougher.

    Arroyo, who is mostly known as a "tell it like it is" kinda guy, has said that Phillips in the locker room, and around his teammates is not the same guy that he is with a camera in his face.

    The story that Hal McCoy wrote was rather scathing toward BP, and if truthful is very telling on his perception in that clubhouse.

    There are also the rumors or stories of BP having a problem with the attention or special treatment he perceived Josh Hamilton of getting while he was here.

    So, like I said, we can never know for sure, not being in that room with those guys, but we have heard things about Phillips the entire time he was here.

    It just might be the first time his performance didn't overshadow the noise in the background.

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