2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

[Sea Ray]

Despite the Browns thing, I like GAC and don't understand why he gets so much heat here.

'Cause it's fun... It'd be boring otherwise

[Redsfaithful]

Did not think SEC football would invade the Bengals thread too. Could we keep that in the Ohio State thread?

[HeatherC1212]

Did not think SEC football would invade the Bengals thread too. Could we keep that in the Ohio State thread?

Personally I'd prefer if it stayed in the actual SEC thread.

Do we get some injured guys back this week? I really hope so because I'm tired of this team being held together by duct tape.

[traderumor]

Did not think SEC football would invade the Bengals thread too. Could we keep that in the Ohio State thread?

LOL. Football is SEC. Get with the program.

[MWM]

Heck, maybe we should secretly discuss Ohio State here. It may the only way to actually, ya know, talk about Ohio State. That thread is the biggest waste of time on this forum.

[GAC]

One thing I've noticed is that many Browns fans put the team on the same level as the Bengals recently.

Which look, the Bengals are a rough franchise to be a lifelong fan of, but they've gone to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, and this year will probably make 4 out of 5. 2010 was a bad year, but otherwise they've been an above average franchise since 2009.

Meanwhile, the Browns have lost double digits every year since 2008. And yet I read things on forums and blogs that suggest at least some Browns fans put the franchise on the same level as Cincinnati's. It's weird.

That friction between the fans of these two Ohio teams has always existed. My brother and I are perfect examples of it. We were a divided household growing up. I've been a Brown's fan since 1965. My younger brother and I were always very competitive, and I think that's why he gravitated towards the Bengals when they came into the league (1968). He didn't want to be rooting for the same team his older brother did.

And that friction between these two franchises also is rooted in (originated with) Paul Brown whose relationship with the Browns soured once Modell took over, fired Brown, and ended with bitterness/resentment. If anyone ever wants to read a really good book I'd suggest "When All The World Was Browns Town" by Terry Pluto.

I've humorously always referred to that "hatred" between Bengal and Brown fans to that which we see between the Israeli and Arab people who have a shared ancestry (LOL).

But even as a die-hard Brown's fan, I've never hated the Bengals. I've always seen myself as a loyal Ohioan first. And if any Ohio team is in a position to win a title/championship (at any level) I root for them. I don't care who they are.

And to be honest.... as a life-long member of this great state, and when it comes to any major sport .... while we've had our "periods" (moments) of success (BRM, OSU, 2 Bengal SB appearances, Indians resurgence in the 90's) we've had far more disappointments/letdowns then success. But it is what it is.

Since '99 (when the Browns came back into the league) through 2012, the Bengal's win percentage is .426. The Brown's is .327. The Bengals have had 4 winnings seasons, the Browns two. Bengals - four play-off appearances, the Browns one (should have been two, but that's another story).

So as far as level of play, I will most certainly acknowledge that the Bengals have improved since hiring Lewis (2003). And as a Brown's fan I'd most certainly trade places with you as far as improvement/progress goes. And while the level of disappointment with Brown fans is greater, most Bengal fans I know are still very disappointed in their team, and also very skeptical regardless that they have a winning record. At work, every one of them hates Marvin Lewis and tell me - "Yeah, we'll probably win the division. But we'll lose in the first round because Marvin is not the guy to take us to that next level".

But again - I'd trade places with you guys.

I work with a guy who is a die-hard Brown and OSU fan. He's also an A-hole. If you're a "true" fan, you can't say anything bad or criticize your team. He shows no objectivity at all. He hates the Bengals with a passion. He and I don't talk sports any more because I've laid it on the line with him when it comes to our Browns.

He came into work after the last Bengal-Brown game and immediately started railing on Bengals fans "Andy Dalton sucks!" Yeah, Andy had a bad game. But it didn't matter to him that "his" Browns played like crap and lost by 20 points. Nor that we currently don't have a QB PERIOD! I yelled over at him "I'd take Dalton over what we currently have!" ... and steam was coming out of both his ears. LOL

I'll root for the Bengals in the post-season.

Bengal and Brown fans do share a common hatred (bond) - Steelers and Ravens.

[texasdave]

I'm with GAC. I am a Bengals' fan first. But if the Browns make the playoffs, I'll jump on that bandwagon.

[Redsfaithful]

People should cut Marvin Lewis some slack. I think he's really grown as a coach this year tactically. Beyond just fielding a very solid team, his challenge problems have evaporated and his fourth down decisions have been on point.

[traderumor]

I'm with GAC. I am a Bengals' fan first. But if the Browns make the playoffs, I'll jump on that bandwagon.

Ewww.

[Hillsdale87]

USC has produced nothing but disappointments over the last several seasons.

Reggie Bush has been decent, but who was the last USC skill player to meet or exceed expectations?

Who was the last to be a disappointment (non-qb)? Robert Woods is looking like a pretty good receiver.

[New York Red]

I'm with GAC. I am a Bengals' fan first. But if the Browns make the playoffs, I'll jump on that bandwagon.

I'm sort of in that group as well. I was born in 1963. My dad grew up a Browns fan in Kentucky, but we were living in Germantown, OH after he got out of the military. I have a photo, taken in 1968, of me and my brother, standing by our mailbox on Butter Street in Germantown, with me in full Bengals uniform (including helmet) and my brother in full Browns gear. (To this day, my brother hates the pic, haha)

My dad tried to make it a Browns/Bengals household, but it didn't work. We attended only Bengals games, watched mostly Bengals games on TV, then when we moved to Lexington in the early 70's, it was 100% Bengals coverage by the media there. I've actually sympathized with Browns fans since the Art Modell thing.

I don't root for them, but I would root them all day every day against the Steelers, or even against the Ravens. And if they were in the playoffs and we weren't, I'd hope for a first ever Browns Super Bowl win. I have so much respect for Paul Brown, that connection will always keep me from hating the Browns like I hate the Steelers. The PB connection sort of makes the Bengals and Browns cousins.

[GAC]

People should cut Marvin Lewis some slack. I think he's really grown as a coach this year tactically. Beyond just fielding a very solid team, his challenge problems have evaporated and his fourth down decisions have been on point.

I give the guy credit. Again, as a Brown's fan, we're on our 7th head coach in 14 years. And when one looks at the condition of the Bengals (especially the disastrous 90s) prior to Marvin Lewis, the guy has improved the team and brought some consistency. And that is important. That is something the Browns have not had, not just in all the coaching changes, but also in upper management. You're perpetually in a "rebuilding" stage with these frequent changes/upheavals. Former owner Randy Lerner's passion, who inherited the team upon his Dad's death (2002), is not football but soccer. A lot of Brown fans saw him as a "bystander", with little interest, and who relied on hiring football people to run the show while he got out of the way. He spent money, but wasn't very active/involved.

The Browns have some talent, and, IMO, a good foundation. Especially on defense. We just have to fill some key holes on the offensive side. And I like the coaching staff. It's going to be an interesting off-season for us.

That Richardson trade to Indy seems to have been a good decision. The kid ain't done jack there.

My brother, and the Bengal fans I work with, will readily acknowledge what I said above about Marvin. But my brother, and a buddy, also say he's Dusty Baker - a coach who will never take the team to the next level.

My brother's constant mantra - which he was echoing again yesterday as we watched football on Thanksgiving - is "He's the second longest tenured NFL coach who has never won a play-off game".

And while that is true - and I argue this with him - he's not being totally fair in the sense that under Marvin he has at least gotten your team into the position (post-season) 4 times (probably 5) where they have had the OPPORTUNITY.

OK. They've lost. It hasn't worked out. But again, I'll be more then happy to change places with you. When the Browns start getting into the post-season on a regular basis, and are even losing in the first round, then, maybe, when I'm in that position, I'll possibly feel the same way about whoever our coach is.

[GAC]

I have so much respect for Paul Brown

One of the greatest football minds/innovators ever IMO.

Have you ever read that book I mentioned in my previous post? It really goes in-depth into the mindset/character of Paul Brown. Brilliant coach. But he was also an overly obsessive control freak when it came to every aspect of the Browns in the 40's/50s to the degree that ownership was even intimidated (scared) to cross the guy. And his players (especially Jim Brown), though they respected him, didn't care much for him for some of his excessive rules/control.

According to the book, when Modell, a NY advertising/public relations executive, took over the Browns he wanted Brown to run the football aspect of the team, which Modell knew nothing about, while he would do the advertising/promotion aspect. And that's where the power struggle began, and the rest is history.

[Benihana]

Who was the last to be a disappointment (non-qb)? Robert Woods is looking like a pretty good receiver.

D'Wayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, LenDale White, Mike Williams, Patrick Turner, Joe McKnight, plus all the QB.

[Hillsdale87]

D'Wayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, LenDale White, Mike Williams, Patrick Turner, Joe McKnight, plus all the QB.

Mike Williams was almost 10 years ago, and missing a year of football was likely a big issue in his NFL career. Steve Smith had a very good career cut short by injuries. None of those other guys were expected to be great players. They were disappointing, but not 1st round picks

Who know is Lee is the right pick, but I wouldn't discount him based on what players from 5 years ago at USC have done