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Thread: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

  1. #316
    Member Oxilon's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    If we're talking QB prospects, I'd think Logan Thomas would be an excellent pick up in the 4th round. Has the size and arm strength you're looking for. Just needs to be coached up.
    That hit was plenty fair. Atleast by a quarter of an inch.
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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    On Bengals Line 700 WLW last night they had on the best Bengal CB ever, Ken Riley "the Rattler" and he said that he's been working with practice squad player Onterrio McCalebb and he's been very impressed. He says his speed and agility is excellent. His only reservation is tackling since he hasn't seen much of that in practice. Riley also had to learn CB in the NFL as Paul Brown drafted him out of college as a QB. Riley knows the position better than anyone and it's great to hear such praise from him. I also applaud the Bengals for getting Riley to make McCalebb his pet project. He's a guy to watch at the CB spot next year
    Been saying it for 30 years. Ken Riley should be in the HOF.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    I'd rather have Mike Evans.
    Has he announced he's entering the draft? Not that he'll be around when the Bengals pick anyway, but I can't see a receiver being a priority for them at this point, unless they luck up on a steal.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Been saying it for 30 years. Ken Riley should be in the HOF.
    I agree with you but even more egregious is the fact that he was never even named to a Pro Bowl. Explain that one to me...

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree with you but even more egregious is the fact that he was never even named to a Pro Bowl. Explain that one to me...
    I've always made the comparison to Roger Wherli when talking about Ken Riley.

    Wherli played from 1969-1982 and had 40 career INTs (for 309 yards). Riley played from 1969-1983 and had 65 career INTs (for 596 yards). In 14 seasons, Wherli's STL teams combined for 3 playoff appearances and zero playoff wins. In 15 seasons, Riley's Bengals teams reached the playoffs five times, including a Super Bowl loss in 1981. Yet Roger Wherli is in the HOF and Ken Riley isn't?

    Despite the big edge Riley had statistically and team-wise, Wherli was named to 7 Pro Bowls, to Riley's zero. Wherli was named to 35 different all-pro teams (1st or 2nd team) compared to Riley's 15. Again, how could Riley be named first or second team all-pro that many times, but not make a Pro Bowl? There was obviously some serious anti-Bengals bias back then by the media. The question is, why?
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    I'm not sure if I was old enoug to read when either of their careers ended, I surely wasn't old enough to have recalled anything about their career other than the stats I've read.

    So w/ that said, there is more, far more to playing defensive back in the NFL than the number of interceptions you get. Some would probably argue that the better you are, the less chances you get for picks because oppossing teams will be less likely to throw in your direction since your man will be covered.

    Ken Riley had a ton of INTs and as a Bengals fan I hope he finds his way into the Hall some day; I've heard many long time Bengal fans saying how he was short changed. I have never heard of Roger Wherli until the above statement so I can't say I know anything about him, but just comparing INT numbers doesn't tell the complete story (though its obviously a large part of the picture)

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    I'm not sure if I was old enoug to read when either of their careers ended, I surely wasn't old enough to have recalled anything about their career other than the stats I've read.

    So w/ that said, there is more, far more to playing defensive back in the NFL than the number of interceptions you get. Some would probably argue that the better you are, the less chances you get for picks because oppossing teams will be less likely to throw in your direction since your man will be covered.

    Ken Riley had a ton of INTs and as a Bengals fan I hope he finds his way into the Hall some day; I've heard many long time Bengal fans saying how he was short changed. I have never heard of Roger Wherli until the above statement so I can't say I know anything about him, but just comparing INT numbers doesn't tell the complete story (though its obviously a large part of the picture)
    I agree 100% that INTs don't tell the whole story. And I don't ignore the fact that Ken Riley played alongside Lemar Parrish for 8 years. During those 8 years, Riley had 36 picks and Lemar had 25. Lemar was a bigtime player also, who finished his career with 47 INTs. He was a very dangerous kick returner too.

    I would argue that Lemar is just as worthy of the HOF as Riley is. Lemar was named to the all-1970s NFL first team, and 8 Pro Bowls from 1970-1980. Obviously I'm heavily biased as a lifelong Bengals fan, but I think they both belong in the HOF. Roger Wherli wasn't inducted until 25 years after he retired from the game, so maybe someday Leapin' Lemar and The Rattler will get their due as well.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    I'm not sure if I was old enoug to read when either of their careers ended, I surely wasn't old enough to have recalled anything about their career other than the stats I've read.

    So w/ that said, there is more, far more to playing defensive back in the NFL than the number of interceptions you get. Some would probably argue that the better you are, the less chances you get for picks because oppossing teams will be less likely to throw in your direction since your man will be covered.

    Ken Riley had a ton of INTs and as a Bengals fan I hope he finds his way into the Hall some day; I've heard many long time Bengal fans saying how he was short changed. I have never heard of Roger Wherli until the above statement so I can't say I know anything about him, but just comparing INT numbers doesn't tell the complete story (though its obviously a large part of the picture)
    There sure is but I was old enough to see him play and he was a shut down corner in the true sense of the word. I mean that at the game's conclusion, you barely knew he was on the field. You rarely heard his name called. Opposing offenses didn't throw his way very often. IMO that's the true definition of a shutdown CB. The fact that he still nabbed so many footballs is particularly amazing. Also amazing that he stepped right in and played 14 games in year one since he played QB in college

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    I've always made the comparison to Roger Wherli when talking about Ken Riley.

    Wherli played from 1969-1982 and had 40 career INTs (for 309 yards). Riley played from 1969-1983 and had 65 career INTs (for 596 yards). In 14 seasons, Wherli's STL teams combined for 3 playoff appearances and zero playoff wins. In 15 seasons, Riley's Bengals teams reached the playoffs five times, including a Super Bowl loss in 1981. Yet Roger Wherli is in the HOF and Ken Riley isn't?

    Despite the big edge Riley had statistically and team-wise, Wherli was named to 7 Pro Bowls, to Riley's zero. Wherli was named to 35 different all-pro teams (1st or 2nd team) compared to Riley's 15. Again, how could Riley be named first or second team all-pro that many times, but not make a Pro Bowl? There was obviously some serious anti-Bengals bias back then by the media. The question is, why?
    Plus, the AFC at the time had better QB's, Receivers, and more complex passing systems than the NFC.

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    You rarely heard his name called. Opposing offenses didn't throw his way very often. IMO that's the true definition of a shutdown CB.
    Couldn't agree more.

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    I agree 100% that INTs don't tell the whole story. And I don't ignore the fact that Ken Riley played alongside Lemar Parrish for 8 years. During those 8 years, Riley had 36 picks and Lemar had 25. Lemar was a bigtime player also, who finished his career with 47 INTs. He was a very dangerous kick returner too.

    I would argue that Lemar is just as worthy of the HOF as Riley is. Lemar was named to the all-1970s NFL first team, and 8 Pro Bowls from 1970-1980. Obviously I'm heavily biased as a lifelong Bengals fan, but I think they both belong in the HOF. Roger Wherli wasn't inducted until 25 years after he retired from the game, so maybe someday Leapin' Lemar and The Rattler will get their due as well.


    When they had Ken, Lemar and Tommy Casanova and sometimes Bernard Jackson back there from 1972-76....they were always in the Top 10 in pass defense and #1 in 1975-76 and maybe 1974 too.

    They could not defend the run though and most teams ran 65-70% of the time in the NFL...even when they were behind. I don't remember the games as well but the stats show one game in 1974 against Cleveland where the Browns lost to the Bengals 33-7 after scoring the 1st TD....and they Ran more than they passed? No wonder they started liberalizing the passing rules a few years after that.

    Anyways, that Bill Bergey trade set them back on run defense in 1974-75.

    Ken Riley was a good CB but he could be passed on...especially deep he would get beat.
    Lemar was way more feared and they basically just did not throw his way.
    Avery good poor man's Deion Sanders.

    Plus it was tough to make it as Pro Bowl CB in AFC.
    Mel Blount
    Thom Darden
    Emmitt Thomas

    He still should have made it in 1976 and even 1983.

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    When they had Ken, Lemar and Tommy Casanova and sometimes Bernard Jackson back there from 1972-76....they were always in the Top 10 in pass defense and #1 in 1975-76 and maybe 1974 too.

    They could not defend the run though and most teams ran 65-70% of the time in the NFL...even when they were behind. I don't remember the games as well but the stats show one game in 1974 against Cleveland where the Browns lost to the Bengals 33-7 after scoring the 1st TD....and they Ran more than they passed? No wonder they started liberalizing the passing rules a few years after that.

    Anyways, that Bill Bergey trade set them back on run defense in 1974-75.

    Ken Riley was a good CB but he could be passed on...especially deep he would get beat.
    Lemar was way more feared and they basically just did not throw his way.
    Avery good poor man's Deion Sanders.

    Plus it was tough to make it as Pro Bowl CB in AFC.
    Mel Blount
    Thom Darden
    Emmitt Thomas

    He still should have made it in 1976 and even 1983.
    Great stuff, TC. I love me some 70's Bengals talk. Still have a lot of football cards of every player we've discussed.

    Lemar was more feared, but he still had 47 INTs and I believe that was good enough for top 25 all-time when he retired. I wouldn't call him a "poor man's Deion Sanders". He was more like the original Deion Sanders. When he got the ball in his hands, whether by INT or kick/punt return, he was a threat to take it to the house every time. One of the most exciting Bengals ever and "Leapin' Lemar" is one of the best Bengals nicknames ever.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Wow, what an opening drive by Andy Dalton. You can't do it any better than that.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  15. #329
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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    Wow, what an opening drive by Andy Dalton. You can't do it any better than that.
    Who Dey. This is a big one today. Need this one after last night...

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    Re: 2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 3)

    Why didn't Marvin challenge that? AJ's toe was clearly down in play before his heel touched out of bounds.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN


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