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Thread: Centerfield in 2014

  1. #1
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Centerfield in 2014

    As of right now, the most glaring hole on the team. Finding a replacement for Choo defensively won't be that hard of a task. Finding someone to replicate his production at the top of the order is impossible...unless we re-sign Choo. And with Boras saying he wants Choo to top Werth's deal, that is either seemingly impossible. Two scenarios could allow us to do this 1) Uncle Bob opens up the pocketbook and we expand the payroll. 2) Trading higher priced players to fit him in our current payroll. As of right now, either plan has the downside of the club paying Choo for 2-3 years where his production wanes. Although Choo's on-base skills could allow him to still give a decent production at the plate in his later years.

    Choo's abilities at the plate are in pretty high demand around today's pitching dominant MLB. And when the Reds first acquired him, many thought they were insane at the thought of him playing CF. But I think Choo proved that his defense there wasn't the disaster many expected. Nobody is going to expect gold glove defense there, but the fact he didn't completely crap his pants was impressive enough that GMs see a guy who's versatile enough to play both corner outfield slots and slide over into CF every once in a while if needed.

    I don't see Choo signing anywhere until after Pedroia sets the market. If Pedroia gets a monstrous contract, Choo's value will increase even further with GMs thinking "Well...now $130 for six years doesn't look that bad."

    Unless there's some kind of miracle or we here on RedsZone start immediately sacrificing virgins to the baseball Gods, I think Choo will be much too expensive for the Redlegs. So we will have to turn to either free agency or trades.

    Here's a list of FA CF (as per MLBTR's Free Agent tracker) with 2013 batting stats.

    Rick Ankiel - .188/.235/.422

    Roger Bernadina - .181/.250/.295

    Shin-Soo Choo - .285/.423/.463

    Tyler Colvin - .160/.192/.280

    Rajai Davis - .260/.312/.375

    Jacoby Ellsbury - .298/.355/.426

    Curtis Granderson - .229/.317/.407

    Franklin Gutierrez - .248/.273/.503

    Reed Johnson - .244/.311/.341

    Skip Schumaker - .263/.332/.332

    Ryan Sweeney - .266/.324/.448

    After Choo and Ellsbury, the selection here is pretty thin. Nearly everyone on the list is either a platoon type guy or wouldn't play enough CF to prove very useful. But do the Reds need a REAL CF? Choo wasn't one.

    This list shows how rare having a decent CF really is. After eliminating Choo and Ellsbury, the rest of the list is panic attack inducing. This makes a trade target like Denard Span (.279/.327/.380) look like a no brainer. Which means the Nationals could demand some major pieces coming back to them in exchange, especially with how good of a deal his contract is ($6.5 million in 2014 with a $9m team option in 2015 and only a half million buyout).

    Dexter Fowler could be another target. He hit .263/.369/.407 last year and the Rockies feel like they're close to contending, but need pitching.

    Another team who could be possible trading partners would be the Red Sox. Boston is desperate for a catcher. The Reds happen to now have 3 of major league caliber on the roster after the signing of Pena. If the Sox manage to keep Ellsbury in Boston, they don't have much use for Jackie Bradley Jr., who the Reds could fit in at CF for the foreseeable future and who's acquisition could allow them to deal Hamilton, who's value is extraordinarily high coming off a record breaking minor league season on 2012 and who put on a base running clinic at the end of last season.

    What do you guys think happens? With all the talk of trades, the front office is silent as usual. We haven't had a big deal happen since Latos was brought over and with Dusty being fired we know something big is going to happen, and to compete filling CF has to be part of the equation .

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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Here is the list of 2014 free-agent outfielders.


  4. #3
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    That Choo guy had a pretty good year, lets get him
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Sign Franklin Gutierrez and Kelly Johnson. Gutierrez has the potential to be a good major league CF if he's healthy. He's the best defender on the list and has hit in the past. Johnson would provide a lefty bat who can spot in not only in CF, but 2B, 3B and LF (all spots that could use a little less exposure to RHP for several days in a row). Neither of these guys would require a huge long term commitment or be an obstacle to Hamilton if and when he's ready. Both would still be valuable and useful on the roster if Hamilton ends up getting most of the PT.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Just don't get this board started on Fowler... It's a mess

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    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    I think Granderson would be an excellent pickup for Cinci that no one seems to be talking about. I understand he has injury problems and strikeouts at a high clip, but I have a feeling he could really rejuvenate his career in GABP and be a big boost to the Reds.

    On the other hand it may be nice if the Reds sign a defense first CF, and upgrade at another position offensively to replace Choo's production. Choo was so brutal in CF, it would be nice to have a defensive stud out there in 2014.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 11-12-2013 at 08:23 AM.

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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Sign Franklin Gutierrez and Kelly Johnson. Gutierrez has the potential to be a good major league CF if he's healthy. He's the best defender on the list and has hit in the past. Johnson would provide a lefty bat who can spot in not only in CF, but 2B, 3B and LF (all spots that could use a little less exposure to RHP for several days in a row). Neither of these guys would require a huge long term commitment or be an obstacle to Hamilton if and when he's ready. Both would still be valuable and useful on the roster if Hamilton ends up getting most of the PT.


    The Reds could do worse than Kelly Johnson at 2B, if they do trade Phillips. I think McClouth would be an okay get for the OF off that list, he can play some CF/LF, and wouldn't break the bank.

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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Granderson would be an excellent pickup for Cinci that no one seems to be talking about. I understand he has injury problems and strikeouts at a high clip, but I have a feeling he could really rejuvenate his career in GABP and be a big boost to the Reds.

    On the other hand it may be nice if the Reds sign a defense first CF, and upgrade at another position offensively to replace Choo's production. Choo was so brutal in CF, it would be nice to have a defensive stud out there in 2014.

    I can't speak for others, but the reason that I'm not in favor of Granderson, is that he would cost the Reds their first round draft pick.
    Last edited by PepperJack; 11-12-2013 at 09:06 AM.

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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Granderson would be an excellent pickup for Cinci that no one seems to be talking about. I understand he has injury problems and strikeouts at a high clip, but I have a feeling he could really rejuvenate his career in GABP and be a big boost to the Reds.

    On the other hand it may be nice if the Reds sign a defense first CF, and upgrade at another position offensively to replace Choo's production. Choo was so brutal in CF, it would be nice to have a defensive stud out there in 2014.


    You gotta actually watch the game as the defensive metrics lie to us.

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    That Choo guy had a pretty good year, lets get him
    It's amazing how much bandwidth was wasted on RZ with folks saying we had a chance to re-sign him. I pity anyone who read all those threads

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    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post


    You gotta actually watch the game as the defensive metrics lie to us.
    For starters - I have no idea who compiled that last, what year it is from, etc. I am assuming it is not from 2013 as it lists the Indians as Choo's team. Another indicator it is not from 2013 is the fact they have Alex Freaking Rodriguez listed as the third best defensive 3B. Haha, I also just realized this is an AL only ranking. This table CLEARLY does not include Choo's defense in CF, which is the position in question. Wow, what a horrible table you have posted.

    Secondly, I watch the majority of Reds games and Choo was bad in CF. He had limited range and did not get good jumps on the ball. This is not his fault though, as he is not a CF, he is a RF.

    I do not think Choo is a bad defensive OF, but I (and every baseball expert on the planet) do think he is a bad defensive CENTERFIELDER.

    Bringing up a list that says "best defensive OUTFIELDER" from at least 2 years ago proves nothing.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 11-12-2013 at 09:13 AM.

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post


    You gotta actually watch the game as the defensive metrics lie to us.
    You're right, the defensive metrics lie and your flickr image is the all-knowing truth...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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  21. #13
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Just checked the Fielding Bible - Choo did not receive one vote for best defensive CF.

    http://www.fieldingbible.com/complete-votetally.asp

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    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Granderson would be an excellent pickup for Cinci that no one seems to be talking about. I understand he has injury problems and strikeouts at a high clip, but I have a feeling he could really rejuvenate his career in GABP and be a big boost to the Reds.

    On the other hand it may be nice if the Reds sign a defense first CF, and upgrade at another position offensively to replace Choo's production. Choo was so brutal in CF, it would be nice to have a defensive stud out there in 2014.
    I think the best bet would be to use a defense first center fielder, and try to replace Choos production in another spot on the field. We have a guy in Hamilton that could play great D and offer elite speed in our system. No need to go elsewhere for that. Find a big upgrade at a position that doesnt cost as much as CF, find platoon partners for a couple other spots and play Hamilton in center. The one major upgrade and the platoons and hamiltons speed will pick up the lost offensive production and Hamilton will play superior defense in center. The team would probably actually be better if Choos production can be reproduced throught the lineup and the defense in center was better.

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    Re: Centerfield in 2014

    I want Hamilton to hit in AAA before I hand him anything.

    I would patch up the outfield using platoons. I'd dump most of the current OF (I'll hang onto Heisey for now) and replace them with guys who possess wide platoon splits and can effectively cover multiple positions out there.

    For example, how about this rotation foursome (include Heisey) covering LF and CF:

    Gerardo Parra (LH) - career .289/.341/.431 vRH, has a canon arm and can play all OF positions well.

    Matt Joyce (LH) - career .260/.354/.481 vRH, might hit even better switching over to the NL and playing in GABP.

    Franklin Gutierrez (RH) - career .287/.344/.474 vLH, excellent defender.

    None of these guys will be older than 31 and none should be too expensive to acquire...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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