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Thread: Who will get Choo?

  1. #16
    Member RedsBrick's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    If the Yankees want him, they get him, right? That's how this free agency thing has worked in the past.

    I mean, that works even for players that are not a fit in NY...i.e. Randy Johnson, for one.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBrick View Post
    If the Yankees want him, they get him, right? That's how this free agency thing has worked in the past.

    I mean, that works even for players that are not a fit in NY...i.e. Randy Johnson, for one.
    Randy Johnson was traded to NYY, and they did want Cliff Lee when he went back to Philly.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  4. #18
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Randy Johnson was traded to NYY, and they did want Cliff Lee when he went back to Philly.
    Lee was a special circumstance though, with him prefering his child stay with a hospital in Philadelphia, and his wife being insulted in NY.

  5. #19
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    MLB Trade Rumors keeps my hope alive:
    I just don't see it as a possibility. He's gone. We've all been reading rumors of various trade scenarios, such as Phillips, maybe Bailey, and Arroyo is most likely gone to. And it's due to the fact that the Red's payroll is stretched to the limit. I've read rumors lately, and I don't know how true they are, that the ownership has even mandated payroll be trimmed.

    But if they are in that type of situation, then, in reality, they have no intention of seriously trying to keep Choo.

    It's gonna be an interesting off-season watching what this FO does because, again, they are at a crossroads and changes have to be made.

    And while I like the kid, I'm just not too enthusiastic at seeing Hamilton leading off for us next year because I just don't think he is ready.

    Instead of filling holes, addressing needs, we may be creating them as far as the 2014 season goes. It may very well come down to a FO letting the chips fall where they may with what we got, hoping it works out, certain players step up/meet expectations, and all because of payroll considerations. I hope I'm wrong.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  7. #20
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    Lee was a special circumstance though, with him prefering his child stay with a hospital in Philadelphia, and his wife being insulted in NY.
    Good! We don't have to worry about Latos signing with Pittsburgh someday! Maybe we can give Dallas a roadtrip to every NL city and a bar pass - then we can eliminate all the NL competition....
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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  9. #21
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Good! We don't have to worry about Latos signing with Pittsburgh someday! Maybe we can give Dallas a roadtrip to every NL city and a bar pass - then we can eliminate all the NL competition....

    I think for him, and her it was worse than the grief that wives/family get from other teams fans. It was likely a one time thing, but for them it played a part.

    http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2010/12/...s-wife-kristen


    Cliff Lee deciding to sign with the Phillies late Monday night came as a surprise to much of the baseball world. Many expected him to join the Yankees, who offered him a six-year, $132 million contract. So why didn’t he go to New York? According to Phillies beat writer Randy Miller, it was in large part because Lee’s wife, Kristen, doesn’t like the Big Apple (via The 700 Level):

    The “incident” referenced occurred during the postseason, when Yankees fans allegedly were spitting on Lee’s wife while the Rangers were playing in New York. That, combined with the fact the Phillies fans showed overwhelming support for Lee his first time around with Philly, seems to have helped sway Cliff to re-join the Fightins.

  10. #22
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Randy Johnson was traded to NYY, and they did want Cliff Lee when he went back to Philly.
    True indeed. My bad.

    He certainly didn't like those cameras in his face in NY.

  11. #23
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I just don't see it as a possibility. He's gone. We've all been reading rumors of various trade scenarios, such as Phillips, maybe Bailey, and Arroyo is most likely gone to. And it's due to the fact that the Red's payroll is stretched to the limit. I've read rumors lately, and I don't know how true they are, that the ownership has even mandated payroll be trimmed.

    But if they are in that type of situation, then, in reality, they have no intention of seriously trying to keep Choo.

    It's gonna be an interesting off-season watching what this FO does because, again, they are at a crossroads and changes have to be made.

    And while I like the kid, I'm just not too enthusiastic at seeing Hamilton leading off for us next year because I just don't think he is ready.

    Instead of filling holes, addressing needs, we may be creating them as far as the 2014 season goes. It may very well come down to a FO letting the chips fall where they may with what we got, hoping it works out, certain players step up/meet expectations, and all because of payroll considerations. I hope I'm wrong.
    I don't think you are too far wrong GAC. In other threads earlier I stated my own opinion was that 2014 was going to be rough. I don't think Walt will just blow things up but I also don't think he will replace the talent that is leaving with its' equivalent (at least not for 2014 - there may be young players coming in that will grow into bigger roles). It will be interesting to see what BP brings back (imo he is gone), whether Chapman starts, what they do with Bailey, whether they get Latos to extend (doubtful) and how they replace Choo. There is also the catching glut which almost certainly means a deal of somebody. One thing I am reasonably sure of is that there won't be high dollar contracts replacing the guys who leave. My biggest hope is any young guys they bring in are complementary to the kids they have for 2015/2016. I'll be surprised if Walt deals any of the main prospects like Stephenson, Lively, Ervin, Winker, YRod and SMB. Maybe one of the young outfielders in the right deal. People expecting a Granderson or even a Profar are going to be disappointed. I think any deals are going to be a lot less "sexy" than that.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  12. #24
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Choo ends up in pinstripes.....I think BP also ends up in pinstripes. I think Homer Bailey gets dealt to the Rangers for Profar and JP plays 2nd and Billy Hamilton mans the CF spot and I also think we see some young players being called up throughout the year if we have OF injuries....we have some darn good talent in the minors and even though they 100% need more time to mature, the time is now and if we are going to nitpik this payroll, like we will almost certainly have to being that Votto is making what he makes and we will have to pay Latos and Cueto good money, then those young corner outfielders are going to have to come up ready or not. We need them to be staples on this team starting in 2015.

    how was that for a response to who gets Choo?

  13. #25
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    Choo ends up in pinstripes.....I think BP also ends up in pinstripes. I think Homer Bailey gets dealt to the Rangers for Profar and JP plays 2nd and Billy Hamilton mans the CF spot and I also think we see some young players being called up throughout the year if we have OF injuries....we have some darn good talent in the minors and even though they 100% need more time to mature, the time is now and if we are going to nitpik this payroll, like we will almost certainly have to being that Votto is making what he makes and we will have to pay Latos and Cueto good money, then those young corner outfielders are going to have to come up ready or not. We need them to be staples on this team starting in 2015.

    how was that for a response to who gets Choo?
    I like it. BUT where does Cano end up in your scenario? If BP ends up in pinstripes that means they did not get Cano. The only other team that can afford him is LA and they just signed Guerrero.

  14. #26
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    Choo ends up in pinstripes.....I think BP also ends up in pinstripes. I think Homer Bailey gets dealt to the Rangers for Profar and JP plays 2nd and Billy Hamilton mans the CF spot and I also think we see some young players being called up throughout the year if we have OF injuries....we have some darn good talent in the minors and even though they 100% need more time to mature, the time is now and if we are going to nitpik this payroll, like we will almost certainly have to being that Votto is making what he makes and we will have to pay Latos and Cueto good money, then those young corner outfielders are going to have to come up ready or not. We need them to be staples on this team starting in 2015.

    how was that for a response to who gets Choo?
    Most of the minor league talent is at AA or A ball. I doubt anyone is brought up outside of getting a taste when rosters expand. Maybe Robinson. Maybe Lorenzen. Maybe Lutz. Of that list only Lorenzen stands a chance of sticking with the roster unless there's some major injuries. None of our great prospects (Stephenson, Ervin, Winker, YRod, Meijas-Brean) are ready yet.

  15. #27
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    https://twitter.com/jonmorosi


    Shin-Soo Choo is "along the lines of Michael Jordan in Korea," said Choo's agent, Scott Boras.

  16. #28
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I don't think you are too far wrong GAC. In other threads earlier I stated my own opinion was that 2014 was going to be rough. I don't think Walt will just blow things up but I also don't think he will replace the talent that is leaving with its' equivalent (at least not for 2014 - there may be young players coming in that will grow into bigger roles). It will be interesting to see what BP brings back (imo he is gone), whether Chapman starts, what they do with Bailey, whether they get Latos to extend (doubtful) and how they replace Choo. There is also the catching glut which almost certainly means a deal of somebody. One thing I am reasonably sure of is that there won't be high dollar contracts replacing the guys who leave. My biggest hope is any young guys they bring in are complementary to the kids they have for 2015/2016. I'll be surprised if Walt deals any of the main prospects like Stephenson, Lively, Ervin, Winker, YRod and SMB. Maybe one of the young outfielders in the right deal. People expecting a Granderson or even a Profar are going to be disappointed. I think any deals are going to be a lot less "sexy" than that.
    I think the above is pretty right on. I hope we're both wrong, and unless this FO really steps up and surprises us all, I think 2014 has the potential of being a down season (not a disaster) for Red fans.

    They fired Baler. Fine. But as I stated in an earlier discussion there are no more scapegoats left for this FO.... other than the FO itself. But again - I think payroll constraints (obligations) are going to prevent them from really stepping up to the plate and addressing some of these concerns.

    They had one of the best lead-off guys in MLB on this team this past season. And yet they didn't even really make a serious offer (effort), IMO, to try and keep him on this team. Sure - Boras is his agent, and he'll probably be getting one huge contract from the Yanks or someone; but again, we didn't really even try. And why? Payroll.

    But we've lost a very important part of this team's offense (which was inconsistent last season), created another hole, and this FO is gonna plug Hamilton in there and see what happens.

    I know it's early, and the 2014 season isn't here yet, and I sound like a bummer, but at this stage I'm not overly optimistic and it's all because of those constraints on their payroll.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  17. #29
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Yankees seem like a logical favorite. I think the Cubs are lying in the weeds though.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  18. #30
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    They had one of the best lead-off guys in MLB on this team this past season. And yet they didn't even really make a serious offer (effort), IMO, to try and keep him on this team. Sure - Boras is his agent, and he'll probably be getting one huge contract from the Yanks or someone; but again, we didn't really even try. And why? Payroll.
    I'm not sure I follow you here...

    While Choo does definitely appear to be out of our price range, I'm not sure I understand the "lack of effort" assertion.

    -Boras is his agent, so there was no hope of an extension before he tested the open market
    -As far as I know, he hasn't shut the door on a return to Cincinnati
    -He hasn't signed anywhere yet
    -Short of them publicly proclaiming they would beat anything offered, I'm not sure what effort they could have put in


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