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Thread: Who will get Choo?

  1. #151
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Just about every player is all about the $. That's not shocking in the slightest. The system baseball has created (keeping down payroll artificially while a player is in the minors and in his first years of ML service time) encourages a player to grab for the cash and big contract at his first opportunity.

    It's silly to expect a player not to maximize his own personal value when he has an opportunity to do so. This "He's all about the $" stuff is just ignorant, IMO.
    Well, thanks for suggesting I am ignorant. Appreciate it.

    But anyway, all I'm saying is that despite thoughts to the contrary, Choo is not going to take less to sign with the Reds or whomever, no matter the chance of winning. I agree that money is a huge driving factor, but I do think there are actually players out there who take into consideration other things. Obviously, it is a balance -- and in this case, it has been tipped in the favor of $.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  4. #152
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 2m

    Scott Boras on Choo decision: "We're certainly moving closer." Said he has received offers and is discussing options with his wife.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  5. #153
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2013/12/11/27927/


    “I think we have to move on,” Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said on Wednesday.




    Or do they?


    He did add the all-too common qualifier after that, adding: “We have to plan as if we’re moving on.”

  6. #154
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    https://twitter.com/Sullivan_Ranger


    Rangers have offer to Choo that's getting serious consideration http://wp.me/p1rXwL-8WST

  7. #155
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Well, thanks for suggesting I am ignorant. Appreciate it.

    But anyway, all I'm saying is that despite thoughts to the contrary, Choo is not going to take less to sign with the Reds or whomever, no matter the chance of winning. I agree that money is a huge driving factor, but I do think there are actually players out there who take into consideration other things. Obviously, it is a balance -- and in this case, it has been tipped in the favor of $.
    I agree wholeheartedly. MLB history is full of players taking "hometown discounts."

    I actually think that with contracts getting so large, there will be more players using other factors to decide where to sign. What's more important, the difference between $120M and $135M, or playing for a contender, or with guys you like, or near your family?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  9. #156
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly. MLB history is full of players taking "hometown discounts."

    I actually think that with contracts getting so large, there will be more players using other factors to decide where to sign. What's more important, the difference between $120M and $135M, or playing for a contender, or with guys you like, or near your family?
    Outside considerations will always come into play but in most cases money trumps everything else. With the turnover in both the clubhouse and in the front office I think it's probably unreasonable to expect players to leave money on the table because they like their current teammates because by the time the deal is up in all likelihood they'll be dealing with a completely different cast of characters.

    Really the best way to get a "home town discount" is to lock up players early in their career, long before they get to arbitration and start to sniff a big FA payday.

  10. #157
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Asking $22M/per according to Ft Worth newspaper. I don't blame Walt at all.
    Pass, take the extra pick. Hope Choo ends up in the AL.

    Inking Bailey and Latos (and one of Cueto/Leake) long term is the only sure-fire way to keep the Reds window open well past 2014. And that's where the focus needs to be for the FO.

    Not signing Choo and dealing Philips should provide the payflex to get Latos/Bailey done. And maybe enough to keep Arroyo around for two years.

  11. #158
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Buhhhhhh Bye Choo

  12. #159
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post
    Pass, take the extra pick. Hope Choo ends up in the AL.

    Inking Bailey and Latos (and one of Cueto/Leake) long term is the only sure-fire way to keep the Reds window open well past 2014. And that's where the focus needs to be for the FO.

    Not signing Choo and dealing Philips should provide the payflex to get Latos/Bailey done. And maybe enough to keep Arroyo around for two years.
    And what about the offense? Not sure how this team contends in 2014 or 2015 minus Choo and Phillips without any significant additions to the offense.

    I agree with not signing Choo at that price. I disagree with trading Phillips (unless someone like Bautista is coming back).
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #160
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    The only way I ever wanted to trade BP is if it means you could bring Choo back.

    Moving BP and not re-signing Choo would be really bad, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  15. #161
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 2m

    TOTAL SPECULATION: But execs wonder if others going in diff directions opens #Astros to make strong run at Choo. Theory: GM Luhnow (cont)
    Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 2m

    loves OBP/Choo's strength. Chance to push along rebuild/excite fans sooner. again, just execs from other clubs speculation. #astros
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  16. #162
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    The assumption here is that BP won't be given away, but traded to fill in one of the offensive gaps. And that 30M+ a year over the next four seasons without Choo and BP (or 40M/year over the next 2-3 if no Arroyo) would be used to maximize the Reds competitive window. If Walt can't fill some major gaps with 40M/year and trading chips such as BP and Chapman he should be looking for his retirement home.

    Hopefully the Yankees are posturing on BP's contract and signing Infante.
    Last edited by oregonred; 12-12-2013 at 12:22 PM.

  17. #163
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Who will satisfy Scott Boras and Shin-Soo Choo?
    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/64614358

    The lack of such an offer now doesn't mean he'll never get one, either. Remember the 2011-2012 off-season? Do you recall all of the questions surrounding Prince Fielder, about how Boras might have finally overplayed his hand, and that Fielder would need to take a short-term deal with a lofty average annual value, because this time things would be different, no one would crack, no one would give in? On Jan. 26, 2012, that all went out the window, with Fielder signing a nine-year, $214 million contract with the Tigers.

    Doubting Boras is generally futile.

    This is especially true when the talent in question is as immense as Choo. He wasn't, and arguably still is not, a household name, but his numbers sure are. Choo ranks 12th in the majors in OPS+ since 2008, minimum 3,000 plate appearances, directly behind David Ortiz, while ahead of players you hear far more about far more often in Evan Longoria, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Josh Hamilton, Hanley Ramirez, and, wait for it: $240 million man Robinson Cano. The fact he's coming off of a great season in which he batted .285/.423/.462 and earned over four wins above replacement in spite of playing poor defense out of position in center field will help as well. If a club is signing Choo to be a corner outfielder, he's likely to be more valuable than he was in 2013, simply because he's a more natural fit there, and his bat can absolutely handle even the rigors of right.

    He'll be 31 in 2014, but that's actually a year younger than Werth was in his first year with the Nationals. With one exception, Choo has been on the field for at least 144 games in every season since becoming a full-time player. On-base percentages like his, especially coupled with power and the ability to make consistent, quality contact, are such a rarity on the open market that someone cannot help but pay him what he asks for, or something approximating it, because it's the only way to acquire that level of talent short of finding it yourself in the draft or internationally.
    So, we know Choo is great. We know Boras is great. Choo is going to get his money, but from where? The Rangers appear to be the safest answer out there, as they need a bat to replace Nelson Cruz, and with Leonys Martin in center and Alex Rios in right, can slot Choo into the simplest defensive position in the outfield that also happens to be the one with the lowest offensive threshold for competence: That's just asking for huge value out of Choo. The Mariners are something of a wild card, as they could still shift players around, and are not quite finished building a core around their new Cano-shaped toy. The Yankees would likely be players if not for the luxury tax, but who knows: if Alex Rodriguez's 211-game suspension is upheld, or at least the 2014 portion of it is, New York suddenly has a whole lot of money to play with. The Tigers might jump in late in the same way they did with Fielder, pushing the newly acquired Rajai Davis into a fourth outfielder role, but much of that might depend on how negotiations with Max Scherzer -- for trade or extension -- go.

    We're basically left with the Rangers, and they must know it to be true to a point, considering they haven't hit Boras' seven-year demand yet. With no one else an obvious, perfect fit, they can likely afford to sit back and see how things unfurl, especially since they have the flexibility to improve their offer should it come to that. With the improvements the A's are making, the slow rebuild of a still-dangerous Angels lineup occurring, and the Mariners finally remembering that they have money to spend, Choo might be someone the Rangers can't afford to let go. They might realize it before the meetings conclude, or maybe weeks later, but at this point, both the Rangers and Choo will likely get what they want.

  18. #164
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    And what about the offense? Not sure how this team contends in 2014 or 2015 minus Choo and Phillips without any significant additions to the offense.
    If Phillips is moved for say, Rasmus, I'd think a combination of Hamilton, Rasmus and Ludwick in CF and LF (with Schumaker at 2B) could get the job done.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  19. #165
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Who will get Choo?

    Anyone else think Bronson Arroyo is waiting to sign until he finds out what league Choo is going to?
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

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