Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: The Coach That Never Punts

  1. #1
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,642

    The Coach That Never Punts

    Coach Kelley claims that math backs up his innovative philosophy.

    http://thechive.com/2013/11/14/the-c...r-punts-video/
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    I wear Elly colored glass WrongVerb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    18,088

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    I've always said that if a team can convert a 2-point conversion at least half the time, they should go for it every time.
    Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)

  4. Likes:

    VottoFan54 (11-15-2013)

  5. #3
    Yay! dabvu2498's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Kenton HS in Ohio has played this way for several years. They also had the Mauk brothers (coach's sons) throwing the ball for them. I've seen them in person a couple times. The first time, their first series, 4th and 15 from their own 15. Went for it. Converted. I became a big fan.

    Takes a lot of guys to sell out to a system like that 100%. That said, they only run about 10 plays (or variations) and it's not very complicated. But it is gutsy.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  6. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,394

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Huh, last Sunday I just brought this up, wondering if anyone had considered it.

  7. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    71

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    In HS that puts a lot of presure on other team to stop it

  8. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    502

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    It would be interesting to see the math for a college/pro team to do this. I am generally in favor of teams going for it on 4th down. I hate to see coaches punt the ball on 4th and short, especially when it is on the opponents' side of the field. The odds are significantly in their favor to convert. However, much of the reasoning behind the coach going for it on every 4th down results from the ineffectiveness of high school kickers and punters. What does the math look like when punters are consistently kicking it 45 yards instead of 25? And when kickers are kicking it into the end zone?

    I'm sure that coaches should go for it more often in college/pros. But the wisdom of going for it on 4th and 15 is much different in high school versus higher levels

  9. #7
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    5,042

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    The math is definitely different and his data seems to be based on the notion that high-school offenses are basically unstoppable (or, at least, his is) and therefore possession is everything.

    Kelley cites the fact that, if he gives up the ball at his own five by going for it on fourth-and-seven and failing, it's 92% likely the other team will score a TD; punting it out to their own 40 (assuming a net 35) still gives the other team a 77% chance of a TD. Playing around with an NFL stats site, giving it up on your own five yields 5.37 expected points for the opponent with a 60% chance of a TD. Kicking it out to the 40 reduces it to a 32% TD chance and 2.66 expected points. Meanwhile, possessing the ball with a first and ten at your own 12 (which would be the case if you went for it and barely made it), there's only a 14% chance of eventually scoring a TD and the expected points for that drive is actually slightly negative, meaning that the chances of driving the field to score are more than offset by the chance that something very bad is about to happen deep in your own end.

    College, I would presume, would be somewhere in between.
    Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice

  10. Likes:

    Hillsdale87 (11-16-2013),reds1869 (11-17-2013)

  11. #8
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    26,022

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    I'd look at the metrics totally differently. I'd look at it in terms of yards. Everytime you miss a 4th down, it costs you 35-40 yards. Thus if you miss on say three 4th downs, you've cost yourself over 100 yards. That's hard to make up.

    I'd love to play a team that never punts.

  12. #9
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    east of WOY
    Posts
    5,086

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'd love to play a team that never punts.
    But I'd hate to play one that never has to.
    The contents of this post may be disseminated without the express written consent of the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball.

    https://www.amazon.com/Charles-DeMaris/e/B07BD4JBQB

  13. #10
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,642

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Pulaski Academy actually beat a college team, Memphis University, on September 6, of this year.

    http://www.maxpreps.com/games/footba...qJ4TpiICSg.htm
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  14. #11
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    7,057

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Kenton is near me, I hear all the exploits. They onside kick on every kickoff too. It is essentially Madden video game football. They execute it too. They are in the state regional semifinal round this week. If they keep winning you will be able to see them play on STO during the State Championship.
    Hugs, smiling, and interactive Twitter accounts, don't mean winning baseball. Until this community understands that we are cursed to relive the madness.

  15. #12
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    26,022

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Pulaski Academy actually beat a college team, Memphis University, on September 6, of this year.

    http://www.maxpreps.com/games/footba...qJ4TpiICSg.htm
    Surely you're not serious that high school teams are playing (and winning) against college teams? Memphis University is a college prep school consisting of 7-12 graders

    http://www.musowls.org/netcommunity/

    Not to be confused with the University of Memphis Tigers

  16. #13
    Member traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Columbus, OH area
    Posts
    19,911

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'd look at the metrics totally differently. I'd look at it in terms of yards. Everytime you miss a 4th down, it costs you 35-40 yards. Thus if you miss on say three 4th downs, you've cost yourself over 100 yards. That's hard to make up.

    I'd love to play a team that never punts.
    At the other extreme was my local high school team, who punted from inside the other team's 40 when they were behind 35-0.
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  17. #14
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,642

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Surely you're not serious that high school teams are playing (and winning) against college teams? Memphis University is a college prep school consisting of 7-12 graders

    http://www.musowls.org/netcommunity/

    Not to be confused with the University of Memphis Tigers
    I admit I was fooled by the name, but not all college football teams are big time programs. In the town I live, we have a college that is playing football for the first time in 52 years. The squad is made up of almost entirely freshmen. They have played better than expected, but they have played some weak looking opponents.

    The Hendrix University roster: http://www.hendrixwarriors.com/roste...?path=football
    Last edited by Spitball; 11-20-2013 at 04:39 PM.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  18. #15
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    26,022

    Re: The Coach That Never Punts

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    I admit I was fooled by the name, but not all college football teams are big time programs. In the town I live, we have a college that is playing football for the first time in 52 years. The squad is made up of almost entirely freshmen. They have played better than expected, but they have played some weak looking opponents.

    The Hendrix University roster: http://www.hendrixwarriors.com/roste...?path=football
    No question that not all colleges field decent teams but I didn't see any of those schools on this team's schedule


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator