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Thread: Best and Final to Choo?

  1. #16
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    3 years, $60mm.

    I'd much rather pay the higher AAV than get locked into a five or six year deal.

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  4. #17
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    4-68, with the last year being a mutual option.
    So, basically 3 years, $51M.

    Choo would be a fool to accept that.

  5. #18
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    I love the guy's game but top-end free agents are almost always a bad buy. I can't really give a good answer to the question unless I know the Reds' budget.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  6. #19
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Choo would never accept, but about 3/55.

    I want no part with paying for a 6/120 ish deal. The last year of that contract would have a very old Choo and Votto taking up a huge percentage of payroll. The Yankees Cincinnati is not.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  7. #20
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Bruce's deal is up in about 3 years as well. Does he get a lifetime deal? Which one of Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Cingrani, Chapman get extended past 2015 or 16? Once Broxton, Marshall and Ludwick drop off, will they continue to spend big on the margins?

    These are questions I would like to have some more info about before going 6 and 100 for Choo. But I would like to go 6 and 100 for Choo if possible. His plate discipline and power combo is elite and it's from the side of the plate that will make him most valuable even though he's too splitty. Properly platooned, he'll be an asset for the full length of that contract.

    Hamilton
    Choo
    Votto
    Mez/Ludwick/FA
    Bruce

    For the next 6 years that is solid. Winker and Ervin are 3 years away as it is. Yrod is the PERFECT platoon guy with Choo as well and he's ready for that role almost right away.

  8. #21
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    So, basically 3 years, $51M.

    Choo would be a fool to accept that.
    I'm pretty sure the Reds would pick up their side of the option. Choo could have 4 years if he wanted it-68 million.

  9. #22
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    I don't think Choo will never come close to duplicating what he did last year.

    Unless he's feeling VERY charitable, let him go.

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  11. #23
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I don't think Choo will never come close to duplicating what he did last year.

    Unless he's feeling VERY charitable, let him go.
    I've come around to this as well.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #24
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I've come around to this as well.
    If the Reds don't sign Choo they need to replace him with another very good hitter.

    If the Reds don't sign Choo and don't replace him, then I think the team has to consider a rebuild.

    I don't think the team is likely to compete next year with essentially the same ballclub but minus Choo. At some point, the offense becomes too weak.

    A rebuild would entail trading a number of high salaried players and trading younger players with limited upside. Votto, Bruce, maybe Latos would be off-limits. Hamilton too. Maybe you try Mes one more year.

    It would be a shame, but it's hard for me to see the Reds competing in this division with the same ballclub and no Choo and no replacement for Choo's bat.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-17-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  13. #25
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If the Reds don't sign Choo they need to replace him with another very good hitter.

    If the Reds don't sign Choo and don't replace him, then I think the team has to consider a rebuild.

    I don't think the team is likely to compete next year with essentially the same ballclub but minus Choo. At some point, the offense becomes too weak.

    A rebuild would entail trading a number of high salaried players and trading younger players with limited upside. Votto, Bruce, maybe Latos would be off-limits. Hamilton too. Maybe you try Mes one more year.

    It would be a shame, but it's hard for me to see the Reds competing in this division with the same ballclub and no Choo and no replacement for Choo's bat.
    I think they need to get an above average player for CF (and not risk turning it over to a .308 AAA OBP) and add some reinforcements that can help the production at other positions as well. I was more thinking Salty or Pierzynski than Brayan Pena, but I still think he'll help in combo with a wisely used Mesoraco as compared to 2013. It remains to be seen how wisely they'll use them.

    In CF, a $100 Million+ commitment to Choo seems too much given his age. They still need to get a good player, probably in trade, who may cost some bucks, but won't require such a long term debt. There are several OF coming along, including Hamilton, Y-Rod, Ervin, Winker and guys like Arias, Lutz, Waldrop and others who may emerge. They are going to need to sign or add a couple of pricey arms by the end of 2015. IMO, a Choo signing for figures being thrown out there might help 2014, but may signal the beginning of a new lost decade once Latos, Cueto, Bailey and Leake all leave by the end of 2015. Cingrani and Stephenson should form a decent core, but they need to keep at least one if not two of those guys and it will take a ton of money with only Leake requiring less than a $100 Million commitment IMO. I wouldn't count on getting more than one other starter from among Rogers, Corcino, Contreras, Lively and the prospect gang. If they do get more, then they have a valuable commodity to deal for cheap help where needed.

    I really think a healthy Ludwick, with Paul as his LH caddy, will make LF more productive. Need to acquire a couple good vets who can help at 2B, 3B and SS. Less PT for Frazier, Cozart and Phillips (or a cheaper 2B with similar production in a reduced role). Those spots all scream for those players sitting more when the match-ups dictate. Eric Chavez and Kelly Johnson are two guys I'd target with the idea of reducing about 400 combined PAs from our splitty 2B and 3B. Johnson would also see time in the OF, including possibly in tandem with a decent RH bat for CF. Beyond that, about 75 more points in slugging percentage from Joey Votto and continued extra base power from Jay Bruce should help a lot.

    I still think the key to accomplishing all of this is dumping Phillips and reducing the cost of the bullpen. Chapman's cost will triple and with raises already committed to Marshall and Broxton, and Lecure and Simon headed for arb, the pen is eating too much of the budget. Either Bailey needs to go for a position player and some kids with Chapman to the rotation or Chapman needs to be dealt for even better talent. Either solution will reallocate money from the pen to the offense/defense. The Reds glut of splitty RH bats is a function of how the payroll has been allocated and Phillips entering his post prime years IMO. Personally, I think Bailey is a better bet to be a top starter in 2014 and Chapman, with his years of control remaining, the better bet to get more talent back. If they could get a young promising lefty in return for Hanigan, dealing off Marshall may make some sense as well. Probably won't get Travis Wood plus back, but I think he'd return a legit young player who could help improve the IF down the road. They also need to try to dump sub-replacement level guys who make more than the minimum (aforementioned Hanigan along with Hannahan, Ondrusek and maybe Heisey if he won't sign something reasonable instead of heading to arb).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #26
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think they need to get an above average player for CF (and not risk turning it over to a .308 AAA OBP) and add some reinforcements that can help the production at other positions as well. I was more thinking Salty or Pierzynski than Brayan Pena, but I still think he'll help in combo with a wisely used Mesoraco as compared to 2013. It remains to be seen how wisely they'll use them.



    .
    The Reds need to sign Choo or another very good hitter, but they won't drop a wad of money on CF. Any major player they get will have to move to left soon, or play a different position altogether.

    The reason for this is that Billy Hamilton will be in CF for the Reds, at least sharing the position, very very soon. The Reds are not going to wait out his AAA OBP. They saw September.

    We can debate whether he spends a couple months at AAA. But the guy is on his way to the Reds real, real soon.

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  16. #27
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Best and Final to Choo?

    3 years and $50 million would be all I would do. He obviously wouldn't take that, and I would wish him well.


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