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Thread: Walt Jocketty

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    Walt Jocketty

    So there's a WJ thread in the mains, but since I'm stuck here in purgatory, I figure I'd start one.

    There's that saying, timing is everything in life. When Walt came to the Reds, they already had Votto, Bruce and BP-- the 3 most important hitters on the Reds. Frazier, Mesoraco and Cozart were drafted by Krvisky and in the minors and of course the Reds had Drew Stubbs.

    The Reds also already had Cueto, Bailey and Arroyo-- 3 starters who have done quite well over the past few years for the Reds.

    Jocketty did make the one great trade--- trading his busted draft selections for Mat Latos. Signing Chapman was a good move as well.

    Overall, the core of the team was here and in place before Jocketty took over. It's also nice to be the GM where you have an excellent hitter (Votto) to build around along with an excellent pitcher (Cueto)

    Jocketty is signed only through 2014, do you give him an extension? How has he done in your opinion? Do you think the Reds are healthy long term? Or the Reds just have a short window to win?

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    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I think 2013 was the year Dusty's head was on the chopping block, I think 2014 is the year that it is Walt's turn. He may have a little more leeway than Baker due to his relationship with Castellini, but I think the option to renew or not will be based upon his offseason performance, the performance of the team, and his in season moves. He falls short, he is probably out as GM but maybe gets a role in the front office because of his past with Castellini, but if succeeds he might get a few more years.

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    goreds2 (12-02-2013)

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I said this in the ORG thread, but I would be surprised if Walt couldn't write himself an extension, take it to Castellini, and get it signed on the spot.

    There are reports that Walt and Dusty never saw eye to eye, and that Dusty was around mostly because of Castellini.

    Walt Jocketty has helped put a winning team on the field in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

    Claiming that the draft picks he traded were busted is going too far IMO. Grandal was still highly touted at the time of the trade, his PED use was unknown at that time. Alonso was quite successful in 2011 with Cincinnati, he just couldn't play LF well for their standards.

    Jocketty was Castellini's hand picked GM, this is the first offseason that he is working from the same page as his manager, I would imagine that hiring Price, and switching the way the organization will operate moving forward, has bought Walt time, if he needed it.

    I could be wrong, but I think Walt's seat is only as warm as he wants it to be right now.

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    REDREAD (12-03-2013)

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    IMO, this offseason will determine Walt's future

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Because of the friendship between Walt and BCast, I think Walt will stay as long as he wants. I could see him "retire" from this GM job, however, in a few years.

    I have confidence in Walt because of his experience and relationships built with some of the other GMs. However, I fear that his old school connections are being replaced by the younger, more saber-savvy guys and could make it more difficult to make deals. I have no data to back my assertion, just a concern.

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    markymark69 (12-12-2013)

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Clearly Castellini liked Walt enough to offer him a job and shove him into the GM spot as soon as he could. Castellini would have to become disenchanted with WJ before sending him packing.

    Walt lost his job in St Louis because he couldn't take DeWitt's vision and run with it. The farm was of little import to Jocketty beyond it's ability to support the ML team. I'm not sure that's enough emphasis on player development for a small to mid market team.

    Jocketty is on his own manager now. Sooner or later the GM gets the blame if the team falters.

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Walt has made some great trades (Latos, Choo,), and some good trades (Marshall, Hoover). It is some of his contracts that leave me scratching my head. Two years to Hannahan, a bizillion dollars to Broxton, Ludwick, etc. If I am being honest, I think Walt's efforts have been a mixed bag. Some really good work, and some crappy work. I don't think Walt's job is in jeopardy, but I do think if he botches this off season he could be in trouble. If Walt's job is in trouble, so are the Reds.

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I think the "bad" contracts are a function of always being up against the budget. The team can't afford to pay the player the market rate in the current year, so they add a year and defer money in the form of a buy-out. It's what got them Hannahan in 2013, by adding 2014 with an option for 2015 with a buy-out that doubles his guarantee. Same thing happened with Ludwick. The Reds had him cheap last year, but they had to add an option for 2015 with a hefty buy-out to get him signed. I'm guessing even Pena and Schumaker are in the same boat. That extra year makes up for not being able to afford a higher salary on a one year deal. It's one reason that I think the bump in TV money isn't going to allow this massive influx in player acquisitions. That bump was spent in extra years, deferrals and raises for guys already on the roster. Broxton is another example. Big raises built in allowed the Reds to get him relatively cheaply in 2013. Now he's expensive. Those tactics are probably what allowed them to add Choo in 2013, but now those monies are eating up the 2014 budget so more two year deals to get guys for a lower current year salary.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    IMO, this offseason will determine Walt's future
    What kind of moves are you expecting then? Trade Bailey for a position player who gets on base? Find someone to take Phillips? What should he do for the offseason to be a 'win'?

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Honcho View Post
    What kind of moves are you expecting then? Trade Bailey for a position player who gets on base? Find someone to take Phillips? What should he do for the offseason to be a 'win'?
    You've asked a couple of very different things here. I'll address them one at a time...

    What kind of moves am I expecting?

    I'm expecting Hanigan to be moved. After that, I'm expecting the unexpected. I know that is a complete cop out, but typically Walt's moves are completely under the radar.

    Do I expect them to move Bailey for a position player who gets on base?

    I don't see them setting out to do specifically that as I don't expect them to move Bailey unless they are blown away. However, I do think it's entirely possible they are blown away. And I would think that package would have to include a position player who will step right in and start.

    Do I expect them to find someone to take Phillips?

    I think there will be plenty of takers for Phillips but I don't expect that market to pick up until Cano and Infante are signed. Now, will anyone give them what they want (a starting position player and salary relief)? I don't see it, so I think he stays. I don't see them getting rid of him at any cost.

    What should he do for the offseason to be a 'win'

    Again, a cop out, but to improve the team from where they were last year and stay within budget (whatever that may be).

    I'll add another question even though you didn't ask...
    What would I do?

    This is all under the assumption the budget is stagnant. I would see what Chapman's value is around the league. If you can bring back an impact bat, I deal him. I'd look at platoon partners all over to take advantage of matchups. If Bailey refuses to talk LTC, I would gauge his value. It would take a lot for me to deal him but I would be willing.

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I know the offseason isn't over, and deals can and may still be made, but right now I have zero confidence that Walt can or will fix the Reds offense. It seems as though he thinks this offense is going to fix itself and I simply don't believe that to be true. This lineup needs a major shakeup. Someone that can come in and take the run production on their shoulders. Can Walt get that guy? My guess is he thinks that guy is Ryan Ludwick, sigh...

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    I look for something to be done. I think will be big or at least "semi" big. Both the Latos and Choo deals came after the winter meetings the least two years. Walt will do something.

    I hate that Phillips will likely be included in any deal or deals this off-season, but I think that situation has reached a point of no return. He needs to do something - the offense is not going to fix itself and if Phillips is not a part of it, then his replacement better play way over his head.

    I guess we just have to be patient and wait for it to play out.

    As far as Walt's future - I think it much like Marvin Lewis' with the Bengals -HFD (Here for the Duration).

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark69 View Post
    I look for something to be done. I think will be big or at least "semi" big. Both the Latos and Choo deals came after the winter meetings the least two years. Walt will do something.

    I hate that Phillips will likely be included in any deal or deals this off-season, but I think that situation has reached a point of no return. He needs to do something - the offense is not going to fix itself and if Phillips is not a part of it, then his replacement better play way over his head.

    I guess we just have to be patient and wait for it to play out.

    As far as Walt's future - I think it much like Marvin Lewis' with the Bengals -HFD (Here for the Duration).
    Not sure how big anything can be at this point. The trade for Choo was pretty big, but after the year Choo enjoyed, I don't think he fits into Cincy's budget any more. Joey Votto's new contract kicks in this year and it's only getting more expensive.

    I'm not convinced Brandon is going anywhere. Walt has been shopping him like BP is persona non grata. I don't think other GM's need to look very closely to realize it's a smoke screen for "the guy's bat is slowing and his OPS has declined .104 pts the last couple years".

    There may be a market for BP but I think the Reds are a year late to hope they can shed that 50M contract and get a big trade. They likely need to decide if the guy can shed his niggling injuries and return to elite status with the bat or settle for sending him packing. His bat, despite the decline, still played last year. Just not sure what the loss of Choo does to the engine.

    I'd love to think Hamilton is ready...but, I don't.
    Last edited by Halfway between; 12-13-2013 at 10:16 AM.

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    Re: Walt Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark69 View Post
    I look for something to be done. I think will be big or at least "semi" big. Both the Latos and Choo deals came after the winter meetings the least two years. Walt will do something.

    I hate that Phillips will likely be included in any deal or deals this off-season, but I think that situation has reached a point of no return. He needs to do something - the offense is not going to fix itself and if Phillips is not a part of it, then his replacement better play way over his head.

    I guess we just have to be patient and wait for it to play out.

    As far as Walt's future - I think it much like Marvin Lewis' with the Bengals -HFD (Here for the Duration).

    Walt turns 63 next year, which puts him as one of the oldest GM's in the game. The Reds are in trouble in 2016 as they will likely lose @ least 2 of Bailey, Cueto, Latos and Leake. They can't possibly sign all 4 guys long term unless the Reds want a $150mm payroll.

    His contract also ends after 2014. His FA contracts leave alot to be desired IMO-- it seems he overpays for everyone. From Votto to Broxton to Skip and everyone in between.

    I think he goes for broke this year to try and win it all then retires. Timing is everything-- he came in just in time for the Reds to have alot of good, young cheap talent on hand-- now they are getting expensive and it's harder to manage without having the same resources as clubs like NY, LA, Texas etc.


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